small machine plc

[SLC_Integrator]

If I need a feature on an AB then it is the best for the job. Most small machines don't need much...

As for support I can get a knowledgeable tech support guy on the phone in a minute from AD. I get more help from this forum on AB than I can get from the local rep. He tries but he ends up just being a relay to to AB and slows down my anwser. I don't see how you compare AD to Walmart???

John

I guess we dont do many (if any) 'small machines' and as such havn't needed to trim down costs to make it 'cost effective'. I mean an S7-200 costs all of $400 and a Micrologix about $700 or so. How much cheaper can you possibly need to go??
Customers that try and squish you down to the lowest $ alot of the time are customers not worth having.

As for support - I sympathise in that AB reps are typically sales-oriented and as such are not alot of help. That why we pay our $$ to be Rockwell Solutions Providers and get all the licenses and tech support we need to serve our client base.

I dont have a particular downer on AD products but as I said, 'you get what you pay for'.

 

[Big John T]

I guess we dont do many (if any) 'small machines' and as such havn't needed to trim down costs to make it 'cost effective'. I mean an S7-200 costs all of $400 and a Micrologix about $700 or so. How much cheaper can you possibly need to go??
Customers that try and squish you down to the lowest $ alot of the time are customers not worth having.

As for support - I sympathise in that AB reps are typically sales-oriented and as such are not alot of help. That why we pay our $$ to be Rockwell Solutions Providers and get all the licenses and tech support we need to serve our client base.

I dont have a particular downer on AD products but as I said, 'you get what you pay for'.

If I'm doing 20 conversions I pay $199 for the AD which does the job perfectly I would save my customer almost $12,000 over using an AB PLC. All in all it just depends on the application. As far as squishing in many cases if the cost is to high then the payback is too long and then their is no job.

As for getting what you pay for why do you have to pay for tech support for the highest price PLC and it is free for the low cost PLC?

Don't get me wrong I like AB products and use them daily but when the shoe fits AD I use them. I'm not blind to using what fits best for a job... I guess that is why we stay swamped with work... We always try harder...

John

 

[surferb]

SLC_Integrator, I don't understand all the posts about how your customers don't consider money to be an issue including reps and service plans, then you mention that PV/PV+s and Seimens HMI are expensive. Why draw the line there? OP was asking for a cost effective PLC and HMI.

And then quoting the "you get what you pay for" line as "your experience". How about describing your experience with the AD PLCs that you're knocking instead of equating price to value. Or you could provide definitive examples.

So far nobody's had anything bad to say about AB hardware. They haven't had anything bad to say about AD hardware, either.

I'm not a big fan of Automation Direct stuff due to its Walmart-Like target market. Theres alot of truth in the 'you get what you pay for' line. Opto22 for example encountered issues going for the 'bargain basement' market.

The Siemens is going to be a good, solid platform and give you lots more options in the future. Isee no reason to change from that if you are comfortable with the software and functionality.

AB micrologix as stated before is a good solution too.

Schneider have the M340 thats powerful and in the same sort of cost range as the S7-200 and the ML1100 if you like modicon, though their tech support isnt as good as either Siemens or AB.
As for HMI, we use alot of Xycom mainly because they are extremely reliable, the software is good (and free!) plus they come with just about every kind of IO driver you can think of.
Maple are pretty good too. Siemens HMI tend to be a little pricey, as are Panelview/PV+.

This is just my experience...........

 

[rsdoran]

www.entertron.com[/url].

While we are at it, this is a small company that has been around since 78. I do not care how many BIG companies y'all refer too..BET you will not get anything more reliable or that offers better support.

What you use is relative to need, blocking your mind to options means you have limited yourself. In my simple language that means you AIN'T too smart.

 

[BryanG]

For simple and some not so simple jobs you can't beat these from Moeller . Combined PLC and HMI and you only have to make 2x22mm (7/8 inch) holes to mount them. You can mod the circuit diagram on site without needing a PC, software is cheap and very easy to use and you can network eight together using standard cat5 cable. The only thing I miss from 'proper' PLCs is floating point maths.

Bryan

 

[LEEPE]

Are these the same as the AB Pico?

 

[careed_25]

i found this product through a search not sure about price but this would be a good route to minmize space and software. Haven's used product but looks like it could be good for you application. Has plug in I/O modules availble for future expansionhttp://www.unitronics.com/data/uploads/V530/V530%20Leaflet-EUR.pdf

 

[stevez]

Leepe ,have a look at the Unitronics.We have use them for "small "applications (CLX for big applications).They include a HMI built in.

Steve.

 

[ndzied1]

Are these the same as the AB Pico?

Yes, Allen Bradley Buys these from Moeller and puts their name on them. AB has different software to program them with.

<disclaimer> I work for a Moeller distributor.

 

[LEEPE]

The Unitronics does look like a good candidate. I got a quote on the V120 and the pricing is pretty good too. It is physicall the same size as the Horner OCS xlt that I was considering; Are they made by the same mfg?

 

[rsdoran]

No, Horner has been a vendor that made and supplied components to GE for years, they went on their own selling plc's etc. just a few years ago. CScape, their software, is very similar to GE plus it allows you to program the HMI.

If this is a small business endeavor with minimal needs as far as plc's may go I would suggest just the opposite of others, talk with the smaller outfits.

AD offers the ability to order online possibly with free and next day delivery. The prices are known and understood so need too worry about multipliers (discounts) etc. The Koyo plc's have been around as long as many and at one time their plc's were labeled by others.

Horner, Entertron, and possibly others may work with you to match your exact needs, at affordable rates, so at least discuss it with them.

PERSONAL OPINION: I have no use for the "smart relays", for the same price usually you can get a plc with many more features that are much easier to deal with. That said, many, offer the ability to program through the built on interface.

 

[BITS N BYTES]

The Unitronics does look like a good candidate. I got a quote on the V120 and the pricing is pretty good too. It is physicall the same size as the Horner OCS xlt that I was considering; Are they made by the same mfg?

I can highly recommend Horner APG. US Built, US Support.
Phil Horner is a real down to earth guy, real creative and end-user [GEEK] oriented!!
Installed many OCS units in the last ten years --- NEVER A PROBLEM.

As far as I know Palestinian rockets do not yet have the range to reach Horner's HQ in Indiana. Not the case for Unitronics.

 

[rsdoran]

I met him too, did work in a plant here in bama that was a beta site. You could not go wrong with them but again, you may not go wrong with some others. YOU need to talk with them and see if your needs fit what they offer.

NOTE: I am assuming this is not a one time thing. If I am wrong and it is one time, does not matter which one you get.

 

[stevez]

Although Unitronics is a Israeli company they are not in range of the Palestinian rockets.
Steve

 

[bamaboy]

AD or AB

Used to work for an engineer that would not consider anything but AB. I finally caught on, he didn't see vary well as seemed reluctent to learn anything new. COuldn't read very well due to eyesight, sSo , stayed inside the box.
My experience is that the AD works in most cases and without the tech support that cost the BIG bucks.
Wonder what would happen if you remived all of the package and could only look at the actual circuits...
My 2 cents