The US has gone to hell and will probably stay there for eternity

[TimothyMoulder]

Soooo... you got clearance from the Sheriff of Nottingham?

Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[TConnolly]

The ACLU is one of those organizations that truly takes the consitution of the USA seriously, even literally. They take on cases that seem foolish or even wasteful to us, simply because the case is about the letter of consitutional law.

Whether you love or hate them is entirely about which side of the debate you are on...

Not so fast... The ACLU is first and foremost a law firm.
If you want to understand the ACLU then understand cui bono. It employs, and pays, lawyers. Unlike the average ambulance chasing firm consisting of a couple of partners, the lawyers are salaried and paid by the cases they litigate (not necessarily win), and the more they litigate, the better their performance, and thus their pay, and the longer the case drags out, the better. Cui bono. Follow the money. It has its place, but its motive is not always the noble one of protecting the constitution.

 

[rootboy]

Rootboy

What the problem with biometric data base.
It make things easy.
It will be very hard to steal your identity.
We have finger print system at the airport.
When I came or live I go through the machine.put my hand and the gate open.I don't need to show passport.
Israeli ID and passports very easy to fake.
With biometric chip it would be imposable.
You will not have to carry ID with you.
One card for all.ID drive license etc.
Lot of good reasons why it good.

Here it would send most of us into a tizzy.

We don't trust the government (I wonder why...) and even when they aren't actively trying to spy on us, they do stupid things like outsource our private data to contractors who lose the data for them.

Any how nice to know someone here read Israeli news.
Any particular contact to Israel?

I'm a news junkie, and I'm a huge fan of Mosaic. So I usually see at least a bit of IBA news every day.

http://www.linktv.org/mosaic/streamsArchive/

 

[rootboy]

Sen. Larry Craig, the right-wing conservative, hated them - until they tried to get his men's-room case thrown out on the grounds that what Craig did in a bathroom was nobody's business but his.

And don't forget, they saved Rush's bacon when they kept the government from looking at Rush's medical records (for oxycontin abuse).

I wonder if he ever thanked the ACLU for standing up for his rights?

 

[cjd1965]

Governments are not trustworthy

Slighty OT but here in the UK the govenment 'lost in transit' a CD/DVD disk containing the names, addresses, national insurance numbers and bank account details for EVERYONE who receives child benefit (which is anyone with a kid under 18).

And no one high profile was even fired.

 

[leitmotif]

Slighty OT but here in the UK the govenment 'lost in transit' a CD/DVD disk containing the names, addresses, national insurance numbers and bank account details for EVERYONE who receives child benefit (which is anyone with a kid under 18).

And no one high profile was even fired.

Of course not some peon got in hot water or canned. Accountabliity rolls downhill - how is that for PC??

Dan Bentler

 

[LadderLogic]

Slighty OT but here in the UK the govenment 'lost in transit' a CD/DVD disk containing the names, addresses, national insurance numbers and bank account details for EVERYONE who receives child benefit (which is anyone with a kid under 18).

And no one high profile was even fired.

How ineffective. In places like Russia that kind if stuff also gets lost once in a while - and soon you may buy copies of it in the local books/CDs/DVDs markets. Along with tons of other pirated stuff. At least someone makes money out of it.

 

[cjd1965]

Biometrics are not infallible ...


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23527525-details/Tests+show+e-passports+can+be+cloned+in+minutes/article.do

 

[bulletin blues]

Lets not forget...

Seems to me like we didn't have these issues prior to 9/11.

Heaven forbid I offended anyone with my comment.

 

[harryting]

Seems to me like we didn't have these issues prior to 9/11.

Heaven forbid I offended anyone with my comment.

Electronic data wasn't an issue at all just a decade before.

My initial reaction is same as most folks here, however, thinking about the issue purely on legal point I see where the court is coming from. (affirmed by a 3 to 0 decision) They just didn't consider electronic data to be significantly different from other type of material like books, magazines and personal planners which were always open to inspections at border crossings.

I see a lot of bashing of current administration on this issue, while there are things to blame for, this is not one of them.

 

[TimothyMoulder]

I once broke a woman's heart over biometrics.

My wife was shopping for a dress for my step-son's wedding. As we were ringing it up, the clerk regalled me with her tale of identity theft, how it had cost them thousands of dollars to get straightend out, but now, things were back on track. She was looking forward with much excitement to getting new credit cards with thumbprint data.

"That won't save you," was all I said.

She looked dumbstruck. "What do you mean?"

"To use the card, you have to put your thumb on the scanner. The data taken from your thumbprint is sent to the bank to verify you are who you claim to be."

"The instant that data leaves the surface of your skin, it can be intercepted, duplicated, and used by anybody with the right know-how and hardware. It's no safer than your pin number or zip code. It's just your bank trying to build your confidence back up so you'll get back in the game with them."

I swear, I thought she was going to cry...

TM

 

[TConnolly]

Electronic data wasn't an issue at all just a decade before.

Its easy to forget how much things have changed in 10 years. In the last decade humnas have produced more information (much of it useless) than in the previous 100,000 years.

Here it would send most of us into a tizzy.

We don't trust the government (I wonder why...) and even when they aren't actively trying to spy on us, they do stupid things like outsource our private data to contractors who lose the data for them.

Its not just Orwellian fears that perpetuate resistance to biometric databases. Some of the popular resistance to biometric data-bases is also based on Christian religious beliefs - mark of the beast prophecy and what not. Now whether you believe in that or not, the reality is beliefs are a very real obstacle to using biometric databases the US. Whether political or religious, the cultural issues just cannot be ignored. Case in point, at the 2001 Super Bowl cameras using face recognition technology were used to look for specific criminals in the crowds, yet it caused a huge controversey and had wide public opposition.

 

[leitmotif]

A lot of these objections come from what a person defines as their personal space and what they define as risk. I remember a person who rock climbed as a hobby but would come unglued at work over chemical exposure. Rock climbing in his mind was acceptable risk (voluntary or chosen)
chemical exposure at work was unacceptable risk (non voluntary or forced)

A bit of humor from my personal definitions
Guards at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard were required to touch your badge as verification they had seen it. I always resented this as a violation of my personal space.

Dan Bentler

 

[Gerry]

Meanwhile (away from the ranch)

...Dubya is lecturing the Chinese government on human rights and the need to "trust the people".

I see the Chinese have taken a lead from the US and, for the duration of the Olympics at least, have established "protest zones" - like the "free speech zones" at US political conferences.

 

[surferb]

Poor girl - you broke her heart with faulty reasoning!

That argument is as flawed as saying that a getting shot with a BB gun is as dangerous to you as a machine gun since both could kill you! There are vastly varying degrees of effectiveness.

The process you describe is called a "replay attack", which is trivial with someone elses PIN. That's why banks use 2 forms of authentication, something you: 'have' and 'know' - the other two types are 'do' (ie, voice recognition) and 'are'(biometrics). The latter two are considered stronger, but also tend to be more expensive. Some biometric systems may employ weak systems. Most will use public key encryption schemes that embed date/time and other information that the authenticating source must verify! You could sit in the middle, recording every byte on the wire. If you know anyone with that particular kind of "hardware or know how" the NSA would be VERY INTERESTED in them. You'd probably have better luck with a fingerprint kit and a rubber mold.

"The instant that data leaves the surface of your skin, it can be intercepted, duplicated, and used by anybody with the right know-how and hardware. It's no safer than your pin number or zip code. It's just your bank trying to build your confidence back up so you'll get back in the game with them."