WinCE vs. PLC

[testsubject]

Before I get flamed I did try searching for this but there was very little posted about WinCE.

I am starting to get tired of having to program and interface 3 different devices for every machine I build (PLC, HMI, and Comm board). I really want to simplify my life! Since I have creative control at the company I work at, as long as I can justify it, I can change it. I have been using AD PLCs for years but it has become really cumbersome having to create a panel (HMI), PLC, and Comms connection for each machine.

Having said all that, does anyone have any experience with WinCe Devices? What prompted this was the WinCE Touchpanel with ENet currently available from EZAutomation for only $700. All I need to do is program one device! It would handle all the controls, HMI, and comms. I would be able to use the same variables without having to type them back in to the next device to be programmed.

Are there any caveats that I should know about? Is it as fast as a PLC? Will I have any comm lag like I do now (I read and write to a serial device and then have to convert the ACII into a value that the PLC can understand)?

How does it handle I/O devices (both descrete and analog)?


I realize that I am talking about having to learn a new language. That doesn't scare me. I just finished a Java class and was told it was very similar to C++. If this will make my job easier in the long run though it would be worth it.

Thanks in advance,

Bob

 

[BobB]

Have a look here. They have fieldbus versions available.

Horner

 

[testsubject]

Thanks for the info Bob. I was aware of Horner's product in the past but had forgotten about them. I think Maple Systems also has such a device. I am sure that there are many out there. I was wondering if anyone had any experience and could enlighten me to the pros/cons of doing this.

Bob

 

[LadderLogic]

In my humble opinion, you really want to keep what is critical for your process separate from what is m-m-m... fancy. Therefore, I am not a big fan of the idea of combining logic with HMI on one device. Even despite the need to work on at least two applications for one project.

And there is always a hard-wired pushbutton for cycle start and cycle stop.

 

[CaseyK]

Bob H:

One thing I was warned about (from a manufacturer) was that when everything is in one package, hanging on the door, every time the door opens ALL the additional wires are being flexed and the terminals stressed.

Having seen some photos of your equipment on the web site, I don't think this is as much as a problem as with huge machines, but you will still have a good number of wires in the bundle.

As I am not overly familiar with EZ Automation, I am not sure how old their combo unit is. If it is "fresh" off the drawing board, I would be a little leary about "bugs" in the system.

I haveused Horner years ago, and was satisified with them. But once the mechanical stuph was removed, those cabinets didn't get opened for months at a time, and then it was some hair-brained software change that some goofy process engineer wanted, that never worked anyway.

Simplifying is better, specially when there is only one of you to go around!

regards.....casey

 

[JesperMP]

Siemens have a softplc (WinAC) that will run on their WinCE based MP panels.
There is no onboard i/o, all i/o is via the Profibus DP port.
What I hear is that this softplc is not as performant as a dedicated PLC - which is not so surprising really.

Siemens also have a regular PLCs combined with an operator panel (C7 series).

If what you really are after is to be more productive, then you should look out for PLC and HMI programming packages that can share the same symbols - in other words no need to type in the tags several times. Siemens can do that, with their regular PLCs and OPs, the MPs (with WinAC) and the C7s.
Other PLC and HMI suppliers have the same feature.

I have never seen an MP + WinAC combination in real life, but I have seen lots of regular PLC + HMI combinations. Unless there is a very good reason for it, I do not recommend to stray outside the mainstream of automation design.

 

[Tmoulder]

Hi Bob,

Before you give up completely on traditional PLCs and ladder logic, take a look at the Unitronics Vision platform. Integrated PLC/HMI with Modbus ethernet and free software. Both subsystems are so thoroughly integrated, I can't really call either an "addition" (plc added to screen, screen added to plc).

I know how you feel about this subject. I used to use AB controllers with Exor panels, and the Uni are a breeze to program in comparison. Having one development software makes life so much simpler. No provision for Profibus that I'm aware of, though.

Anywho, I would recommend avoiding WinCE for the same reason I avoid any soft PLC - my little palmtop crashes less than my desktop, but only marginally.

Good Luck!

TM

 

[testsubject]

Thanks for all the replies so far eveyone. One of the big reasons I am thinking of leaving the PLC world is the speed with which Serial data can be brought into the PLC. I use the CP-128 to get serial data and convert it from ASCII to a BCD/Real number to be sent over to the PLC. This all takes time. I think that this will perform better using a PC type device.

Bob

 

[DesertDog]

I am using a Siemens MP-370 running WinCE and WinAC MP. It works but if I was setting up a new system I would use seperate systems. See this post for a summary.