Wiring and indicator standards

[rsdoran]

I need help here, we all know I aint the sharpest knife in the drawer.

I would like to develop a standard for wiring and indicator lights that is accepted in the US and eventuallly internationally.

Personally I am not sure of the details involved but I am more than willing to try to achieve this.

Being in the US I have to first work here to get it accpted....but any that may want this from any country please respond.

I will also post this on the "other" forum.

 

[Ken Moore]

Are you doing this for "in house" stuff or for customers?
I would assume that larger customers already have thier own color specificatins, my company does. But I would think most smaller customers don't have anything on paper. Depending on your market, you may be just spinning your wheels when it comes to a universally (sp) accepted color standard.

I know I'm just rambling, but we do have a company standard for indicator lights, for wiring we follow NEC and NFPA79. I did some work for Rockwell International once at a truck axle factory in OH. They had a spec. for what color the outside and inside of the enclosure was. Different voltages required different colors on the inside.

Good Luck on your endeavor.

Ken

 

[rsdoran]

I didnt think this would be easy. Thats the issue though:

I would assume that larger customers already have thier own color specificatins, my company does.

Its ok for a company to have a guideline but wouldnt it be nice if everyone had the same guidelines? You goto a panel anywhere and know that the blue wire should be 24vdc....the yellow wire means external source...the black wires should be AC at line...etc etc.

Like I said....aint likely to happen anytime soon but I got another 10 years or so life expectancy so maybe it can be my "major" accomplishment. I have ADD so its amazing that I have done some of the things I have.

 

[Lancie1]

rsdoran,

There used to be a NEMA and JIC color code for control indicator lights, but I noticed that it has been removed from the standards. I know that every time I designed a panel based on that standard, it caused no end of controversy. It required red indicators for "Motor Running", Green for "Motor Safe", Yellow for "Caution". It seems that about 1/2 of the world uses green to mean run, and the other 1/2 uses red, and never the twain shall meet.

 

[dsgrijalva]

Hi

You can find somehting on the UL508, 64 Wiring Terminals Marking. In fact UL is now incluiding some details about Color coding of grounding conductors.

In the UL508A, 66.5.3 you will find

black - all ungrounded power circuit regardless of voltage
white or natural gray - grounded ac current-carrying power regardelss of voltage

May you will find more in the other UL´standards.

I hope it be usefull.

Regards

 

[Steve Bailey]

Just playing devil's advocate

I've always taken the approach that every wire should be considered 'live' until proven otherwise. If a universally accepted color code said, for example, that 5 VDC wiring should be purple, what happens if the person who wired the panel didn't follow the standard? If the color code leads the technician to assume that the purple wire is 5 VDC when it's actually carrying 460 VAC, is that an argument in favor of the color code? What I'd be concerned about is a false sense of security.

As things stand now, there's enough uncertainty surrounding wire colors to force us to develop good habits when servicing panels.

I'm just not sure that the effort involved in developing a standard for wire colors would result in any tangible benefits to the people who had to live with it.

 

[GEOFRA]

cable color coding

See attached file for European standards for cable color coding

 

[AutomaticLeigh]

rsdoran,
You might want to look at IEC 60204-1 (=EN 60204-1), which has some general guidance on colours for lamps, pushbuttons and wiring. Years ago, we used to put red motor running lamps on motor control centres, then some people specified green. Eventually, when nothing was specified, we started fitting white. No-one ever complained.

A lot of big purchasers of panels, like water utilities, have quite detailed company standards. Unfortunately, they are not all the same.

When you've decided on the motor running colour, you can start on the mimic colour for valves. So, red, is that open or closed then?

Leigh

 

[rsdoran]

I now follow NFPA 79 guidelines for wiring and indicators, some of it follows IEC but their are differences.

I've always taken the approach that every wire should be considered 'live' until proven otherwise. If a universally accepted color code said, for example, that 5 VDC wiring should be purple, what happens if the person who wired the panel didn't follow the standard? If the color code leads the technician to assume that the purple wire is 5 VDC when it's actually carrying 460 VAC, is that an argument in favor of the color code? What I'd be concerned about is a false sense of security.

I always treat every wire "live", that should be the stanadard operational procedure. A color code would simplify/expedite troubleshooting...ie if purple is 5vdc and you verify its using puprle for 5vdc (and nothing else) this may allow you to follow the circuit without needing to "chase" individual wires.

Whats the point of states adopting NEC? Has that made it unsafe because people assume the green is always ground and will not be "hot"? Being ground doesnt mean it isnt "hot" but means it SHOULD NOT be "hot".

I do not know of a way to prevent "assuming".

I dont care what color a wire is...check it first to verify what it is.

I didnt think the idea had a chance.

 

[guest]

I always treat every wire "live", that should be the stanadard operational procedure. A color code would simplify/expedite troubleshooting...ie if purple is 5vdc and you verify its using puprle for 5vdc (and nothing else) this may allow you to follow the circuit without needing to "chase" individual wires.

You got it!
Approach any wiring with respect, it might bite.
I guess when it comes to single wires, you don't have to follow any standard. Just what's common! Red is hot (24V....) blue 0V.
These colors are also used in other cables and voltages, like in motorcables (blue,black,white,green/yellow).
So I guess you can never trust the cable by it's color.

 

[Steve Bailey]

Still being contrary

If the only purpose of the color code is to expedite troubleshooting, then why not just specify that the builder of the panel include the color code he used as part of his documentation.

Sometimes the absence of a standard can tell you a lot. If I run across a panel with a mixture of wire colors, types, and gauges, it tells me that either;
1. The person who wired it was working outside of his job description
2. More than one person did the wiring over a period of time.

In either case, it tells me to mistrust everything, including the written documentation.

 

[rsdoran]

Standards, codes and laws get bent, volated or broken every day. I do not know of a way to prevent that either.

From my perspective (being a troubleshooter) if there was a standard and I knew a machine followed the standard then it could expedite troubleshooting.

The OEM, contractor, installer etc wouldnt need to worry about UL, NEC, IEC, companies etc because they would always be the same...that seems like it could/would make it easier for both parties.

There are other reasons that I am sure could be applied, if there werent why would IEC and NEC/NFPA include colors for wires etc.

Why worry what color ground is? You should test it anyway.

Why have traffic lights or stop signs? People drive right thru them.

Uniformity has merit in any field. If there was one standard then in the future you would be less likely to see as many of those issues you have mentioned.

I wont say that I am uneducated but I will say I do not have the skills to articulate or write well enough to debate this or any issue. I end up sounding nasty and sarcastic instead of verisimilitudinous.

It was just an idea that I thought had merit. I guess I was wrong.