Wonderware/Rockwell

[jag131990]

IMO an application is as good as the people that design it. All packages are capable of amazing things if you have the right people, the right approach and enough patience.

Your client obviously did not have the right people.

Put those same people to use on an alternative product and I'm sure you would be able to determine which is better.. apples to apples

 

[RheinhardtP]

OT:I have it on good authority that nothing will change for now (next 12 months). What the future holds for Citect is hard to predict.

I know that Intouch licenses alone is a cash cow and its hard to see them getting rid of Wonderware Intouch and System Platform.

It will interesting to see where they decide to spend their R&D funds.

 

[jag131990]

OT:I have it on good authority that nothing will change for now (next 12 months). What the future holds for Citect is hard to predict.

I know that Intouch licenses alone is a cash cow and its hard to see them getting rid of Wonderware Intouch and System Platform.

It will interesting to see where they decide to spend their R&D funds.

Wonderware Vijeo System Platform Citect SCADA Expert.

 

[robertmee]

Then you can't use things like the built in enable/disable. So then have to layer black text and grey text with your button and add visibility.

FactoryTalk SE doesn't even have a disable/enable feature on their buttons. How primitive is that? For that reason I use ActiveX buttons in FT.

 

[Paullys50]

IMO an application is as good as the people that design it. All packages are capable of amazing things if you have the right people, the right approach and enough patience.Software packages all have their own little quirks that irritate the hell out of me but you find alternative ways to get the same results.

Your client obviously did not have the right people, whatever issues they have i doubt it is product related!!

Given that $$$$$$$$ is no object you are absolutely correct. Patience is time and money. You can make any package pretty darn good if you have the financial and labor resources to do so. But if it's inefficient to work in, convoluted, complex...etc all that happens is $$$ out the window.

Have any idea how much $$$$$ 30 sites, and paying for support on all the licensing is each year? My clients issue is not about the product the operators look at, it's about the costs to provide, deploy and maintain that to the operator. I have a spreadsheet with almost 130 license variations alone for InTouch! 130!! Toss in System Platform, Historian, reporting...please tell me how you manage all of that across 30 sites and actually know what you're paying for.

Don't get me wrong, software support and licensing is a part of business, but I'm sure glad I just have to deal with developing InTouch applications, and not figuring out how to justify and pay for licensing and support costs across 30 sites.

 

[Paullys50]

FactoryTalk SE doesn't even have a disable/enable feature on their buttons. How primitive is that? For that reason I use ActiveX buttons in FT.

I could come up with FTView irritations too, just happens that I've been developing WW applications for the last 3 years now so InTouch is fresh in the mind:beer:

 

[NetNathan]

I am sure Citect and Wonderware will continue to exist side by side.
Just like iFix and Proficy does under the GE umbrella.

There is too big of a "dedicated" user base for each.

 

[Operaghost]

Wow this has gotten WAY off topic. FT View, Ignition, and Citect are all fine products to some of you and yet they each are the worst products ever to some others of you, but they are not the topic here.

I tried to put this back on topic yesterday but since no one is addressing the original question I suspect the OP has fled to somewhere else for answers. I am not familiar with WinCC and it's been years since I used Wonderware so I can't offer any advice.

WinCC v Wonderware is the real topic here.

OG

 

[DaveW]

WinCC v Wonderware is the real topic here.
OG

I thought it was Rockwell vs Wonderware but now I'm really confused.

 

[DaveW]

FactoryTalk SE doesn't even have a disable/enable feature on their buttons. How primitive is that? For that reason I use ActiveX buttons in FT.

Isn't that the truth? I have to look into this ActiveX button. Try and roll your own enable/disable like ww and I have to say it's painful.

 

[Operaghost]

I thought it was Rockwell vs Wonderware but now I'm really confused.

Read post #3.

His friend has Allen-Bradley PLCs with Rockwell Software (presumably RSLogix) and Wonderware. Where he has S7 with Simantic Manager and WinCC.

FT View has nothing to do with the OP question.

OG

 

[robertmee]

Read post #3.

His friend has Allen-Bradley PLCs with Rockwell Software (presumably RSLogix) and Wonderware. Where he has S7 with Simantic Manager and WinCC.

FT View has nothing to do with the OP question.

OG

Not now it doesn't...but many had responded before he edited the third post.

 

[DaveW]

WonderWare can burn in hell for all I care...

Everything about it is primitive and archaic (I'll focus on InTouch rather than Sys. Platfrom).

WonderWare is not easy to develop in...
- can't change button color
- can't save scripts
- SQL bindlists...
- Scripting is powerful, but the scripting editor is pathetic
- Can't create libraries of anything, sure symbols are great, but I can't port anything very quickly.
- no way to delete groups of tags!!!!!!!!!!!

...ugh /rant off

I'm all about pushing the Ignition solution, and I have yet to really use it!!

So is your rant about bad archaic software or cost? Your first post indicates the former. I'm guessing you inherited a large installed Intouch base system and was overwhelmed because you weren't familiar with it and maybe whoever put it together before you didn't help by making it too complex.

Regarding the cost, I would agree with all the comments here that it's too expensive. I recently had to upgrade a development license and they wanted $6300. They offer a 25% discount if I buy a 1 year support contract for $2500 so it's a wash. On top of that they want $950 to convert a dongle to a license file. Geezzze...

 

[robertmee]

In regards to scripting, I've found that as PLC's have become more powerful, I'm extracting all the scripting from HMI's and doing the logic that was once done in WW or FT/RSView32 in the PLC now. So scripting engine is a non-starter for me. It was always a pain to go in after someone who relied on heavy scripting in an HMI...It was like having two PLC's and figuring out who was doing what. Put all the heavy lifting where it belongs, IMO...in the PLC. 100% of the processes I create now can run without a head...so when the PC crashes, or a Microsoft bug brings it to a screeching halt, the process keeps on putting widgets out the dock door.

 

[Paullys50]

Yes, the thread has gotten off topic unfortunately posts 1 and 3 by the OP don't exactly offer much for a discussion. A quick glace at the product web pages probably would answer the question. If the OP had specific questions such as: how does development differ, how does licensing differ, what are recommended "do's and don'ts"...

So is your rant about bad archaic software or cost? Your first post indicates the former. I'm guessing you inherited a large installed Intouch base system and was overwhelmed because you weren't familiar with it and maybe whoever put it together before you didn't help by making it too complex.

Regarding the cost, I would agree with all the comments here that it's too expensive. I recently had to upgrade a development license and they wanted $6300. They offer a 25% discount if I buy a 1 year support contract for $2500 so it's a wash. On top of that they want $950 to convert a dongle to a license file. Geezzze...

My irritation starts with development roadblocks, then is inflamed with costs.

I'm actually a developer and am quite familiar with the product. For me it's about being efficient at development, while providing a high-quality interface for the client. Provide tools and the means for me to be efficient, consistent, repeatable and my services become cheaper and result in a higher quality product. The things I mentioned slow me down and impact my work flow which costs my clients more $$ and makes me less competitive.

In an attempt to put the tread back on topic, for those of you who have worked with WinCC and Wonderware, which product allows you to manage your development easier? Can WinCC script as much as WonderWare, and if so, can you export scripts to store them outside the project in a library for future use?

What components of WinCC are comparable to WonderWare, What components are vastly different?

If I am familiar with WonderWare, how quickly could I pickup WinCC?

If you could take your pick, would you choose WonderWare or WincCC? Can you explain your choice?