How hard is it to learn other brands?

Currently I use Allen Bradley PLCs, HMIs etc. But, I may be getting ready to take a job where I have to learn Siemens Step 7. How hard is this if I already know AB?

Also, I currently use GE Fanuc iFix and may have to learn Wonderware. How hard would that stretch be?

I'm under the impression that it's quite a bit different, but don't let that deter you.

Wonderware shouldn't be much of a stretch migrating from iFix.

I have not used siemens but you are in for a pretty sizeable learning curve based on my observations at this forum.

As for iFix to Wonderware, I have very limited experience with old wonderware and I really found it a bit easier to edit than iFix, and more of a SCADA system I could poke around in offline and understand right away.

I have done extensive editing and configuration with iFix but working with a professionally developed application with several channels of a variety of communications, so it was a nice complex example to drill into and learn from.

It works flawlessly but was more cumbersome for me being a PLC to three custom serial netowrks controlling 10kHP worth of ammonia compressors...iFix is solid.

My counterpart at work swears by wonderware, but the bosses have banned wonderware because some "Integrator" sold them a bunk system using it. I was there about 2 years when we paid this refrigeration company with a great deal of experience to upgrade them all to more modern iFix versions. Pretty trouble free and versatile. I think I had one bug I had to hunt for when the database editor refused to start, and the solution was easy.

Yep, if you are good with iFix i think you will find Wonderware more intuitive and friendly. iFix is very very solid for us too, but I find some of the graphics editing frustrating, and had to spend more than two days learning about the drivers and databases in our setup.

My Wonderware experience was just few edits in a old old version but it was very slick.

If the new employer is willing to pay for some training not that bad. but if you have to hit the door running and learn as you go get ready to pull a few hairs out.

I have noticed over the years siemens has got a little more user freindly for those of us who just dabble in german LOL

I have used Allen Bradley RS Logix 500 and RS Logix 5 extensively, and also Use Siemens Step 7.
The differences between the systems are quite substantial, but if you have a good Knowledge of RS Logix then you will find S7 a bit of a handful to start but once you get used to it it is OK.
The biggest difference you will find with Siemens S7 is just how big and cumbersome the package is. It is quite resource hungry, and thus quite slow compared with RS Logix.
You will find that on line debugging is quite slow too as you manually have to turn on a trigger to animate each block you have open.
There are loads of little things that I find annoying about S7 I could write about them all day.
You will either love S7 or hate it, but the transition will be memorable.

Yes, you will find Siemens quite a challenge. I have used many PLCs over the years, have not used the latest AB stuff yet, and have used Siemens probably 12-15 times - I still strugglee. People who know it inside out swear by it pretty much but there are some strange quircks, lot of functions I would expect are missing, online programming is also a challenge.
Very good if you use ST a lot - I do not.

I echo most of the sentiments. It will be a steep learning curve. Virtually everything is handled differently.

My feelings about the software are inline with Liam. I have been forced to learn many different PLC software packages over the years and I find Step7 to be extraordinarily clunky for this day and age. I would say most of my distaste of Siemens is largely a result of the the development software and not the hardware, language, or capability.

A lot of S7 users, as you may have noticed, are very heavy on the STL programming. I have heard mentioned, and I tend to agree, that S7 was so painful to use that people migrated to preferring to type their code in using STL just because building it in ladder was extremely inefficient time wise. Even with the S7 of today, it is easy to see how this may be true. I also think a lot of STL guys make the assumption that just because it is so inefficient build ladder in S7 that the same is true on everyone elses software.

It is difficult to see how people can make blanket statements like that without having had to make extensive use of several different software packages in which to make a comparison.

If you are coming from an AB background virtually nothing will be intuitive to you.

Everytime I have to learn a new controller, when possible, I try to set aside a couple days just to play and experiment. I make a list of the 10 most common tasks or logic structures I typically need to do and then I try to implement them. I try to use this time to learn all the magic hotkey strokes and little tricks that may help simplify using the software. In short I try to learn how to use the software itself, because once you start getting burried in writing code it becomes much more difficult to spend the time to learn the IDE and you just develop bad brute force habits just to get you by. (I wish I had taken that approach with ACAD way back when and maybe I'd be months ahead at this stage)

It is always nice if you know someone who already knows the software so they can nudge you in the right direction. If not, you have the whole world available to you in here!

To me the only way to learn this stuff effectively is experimentation and forcing yourself to struggle to figure it out yourself. Get help when you reach roadblocks or think your overlooking a better way, otherwise, read the manuals and play hard!

there will be plenty of people on here to help when you need it.

STL is only necessary when you need indirect addressing, it is still advantageous to learn STL though.

Couple of tips, make use of VAT tables, where you can save tags and data for on-line monitoring. Look at the block libraries to see what's available.

Step 7 is very flexible and you don't need licenses for everything, the latest package will allow you to access and program all previous versions.

Its all personal preferences but I put Siemens S7 (300's and 400's) as the best PLC out there to use.

Saying that you don't state what PLC you are using, S7-200 is different from S7-300/400 which are different to S7-1200. (my comments are 300/400)

We have almost all AB plcs in the plant. Just to learn siemens S7 i downloaded the software. I found it is not intuitive at all. Tried for a few days that just gave up. Will learn when i have to learn

shoelesscraig said:

Currently I use Allen Bradley PLCs, HMIs etc. But, I may be getting ready to take a job where I have to learn Siemens Step 7. How hard is this if I already know AB?

Also, I currently use GE Fanuc iFix and may have to learn Wonderware. How hard would that stretch be?

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Hi!

I grew up with S5 and S7, so I'm used to it and, cannot tell if it is hard or easy to pick up.

I wish you good luck and I think it will be worth while to spend a couple of hours on this Siemens training site:

http://www.automation.siemens.com/m...a_basics_step7_programming/Pages/Default.aspx

Kalle

Edit: Here is a free version of Step7 Lite. The coding is more or less similar to the 'real' Step7, but no communication is supported (neiter ethernet nor profibus/net).
http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/view/en/24372175

Hey guys I'm just wondering what is the price tag on the siemens S7 software?

Adam303 said:

Hey guys I'm just wondering what is the price tag on the siemens S7 software?

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This is from this past Feburary.
I ended up paying about a third of this because I already had a license and was able to upgrade at a discount.

Rockwell, did you hear that??!!? I was able to update my Step 7 software at a discount! Neat Idea huh?

shoeless, one thing you might want to do is contact your local siemens distrubitor. I dont know about your area but here in texas its AWC and these guys put on free ! day training. They even provide lunch!!. They have a great support network. I got my feet wet on s5 it was not pretty, but not impossible I rarely use siemens not because its hard.
But because most my clients think it is ,like a ford and chevy.. its brand loyality!
However it is different. If you have a logical mind you can do it. In this field it is advantageous to learn more than one brand even if you don't take the job.To me its more about having to take the job or wanting to take the job. The more versed you are the more choices you have. Steve

A few personal and non-scientific comments, based on also having to learn Siemens PLCs after experience with A-B:

1) DO NOT approach it asking questions like "What is the Siemens equivalent of XIC?". Instead ask your questions in the format "How do I create a NC contact with Siemens?". This is a subtle difference, but it will save you endless aggravation. Siemens has a way to do every task that an A-B can do, but there are often no exact equivalent instructions.

2) Siemens was developed with the European attitude that programming was to be done by engineers, while A-B was developed with the American attitude that programming could be done by technicians and electricians. Keeping this in mind will help you understand why Siemens does some things the way they do, although it won't help much with the how.

3) Siemens programs in ladder logic, but they don't really mean it. (A-B has some alternate programming languages like SFC, but they don't really mean that either.) Therefore, when programming Siemens I suggest that you do your base structure and sequencing in ladder but make frequent calls to functions.

4) The HMI and PLC software are integrated, more or less. One thing that annoyed me was the time lag between starting the HMI software and it being done loading. I learned to time the start of HMI modifications to coincide with my need for starting a nature and coffee break.

5) The worst part of Siemens, in my opinion, was the clunky and lethargic online monitoring - especially viewing blocks of data. I never did get it all figured out, but got to the point where I could look at data well enough to debug and tune, although not efficiently.

Echoing some of the above responses, I didn't have any formal training in Siemens, so some of my problems were no doubt my own fault. On the other hand I didn't have any formal training in A-B either, and I picked that up with only minor levels of cursing.

bornwild said:

We have almost all AB plcs in the plant. Just to learn siemens S7 i downloaded the software. I found it is not intuitive at all. Tried for a few days that just gave up. Will learn when i have to learn

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This is the type of comment that drives me crazy, I'm more used to S7 than AB, when I use AB I find it is not intuitive at all.

Why..

Because I'm bloody used to Siemens.

What people are saying is that Siemens does it differently, not a bad a thing.