Continuing the Intellectual Property discussion (RTOs)

Russ

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Wow.. it seems to have taken on a life of its own. :) I guess that's a good thing... here's a quick summary response..


They're Allen Bradley SLC processors. My former employer can still access the code, and does. Up until very recently they were calling the RTO modems on a weekly basis to generate the weekly 'Temperature Averaging Reports' which is something that I came up with. It's a plc based way of averaging temperature, recording unit states, and any faults, over a three hour period of time.

My basic approach has always been 'What will benefit the plant without jeopardizing the integrity of the equipment?'

There are fairly standard ways field guys would approach things like: bringing a unit online quickly, shutting one down quickly. More unique things would be self correcting faults, and setting up a standard set of remote cell phone codes to start up/shutdown/reset faults.

What I recently did (on my own) was to automate (using a key switch) the rapid cooling of the unit. I call it 'Accelerated Cool Down.' Yep, originality is my strong suit. :)

Basically these units have an isolation damper that I 'open' during shutdown. With this additional air source I can then ramp the VFD to approximately 70%. Then I set it to 'complete shutdown' 20 minutes after the combustion chamber temp drops below a safe temperature, right around 498F. There are safeties for the isolation damper (timers to help maintain position in case of a fault, so that there aren't excessive static pressure in the manifold).

Rapid Recovery was a way to bring an RTO online extremely fast. Units with ceramic block media have a standard ramp rate of 7F/min. If the block can be proven hot then the ramp rate can be safely adjusted. The key is proving that the block had reached that certain threshold temperature. There were two ways I'd do this: 1) using the temperature averaging program I'd check against the previous three hour reading to make sure it was above around 1398F 2) Have a 1hr timer initiate once the unit goes online, which would latch a bit upon completion. This bit unlatches when the temp falls below around 1001F.
If a short term shut down were to occur (power outage/fault/etc), rapid recovery would look to see if the block was warm, and also that the current chamber temp was above a critical temp (like 1002F for instance). If both conditions were true it would ramp between 50-70F/min, and also bypass other things (like soak timers, etc) in order to get the unit online asap.


Neither of these are earth shattering, nor very original. The idea seemed to have been the most important aspect. The code would vary and would be integrated with the original code that was already on the unit. No need to re-create the wheel.


I like the idea of protecting some of my ideas, but it seems that unless I create a stand alone device that performs a specific function. And if this device can be proven to be wholly original, then and only then can I look at something like a patent. Of course competitors can't have access to the program, or any patent wouldn't be worth the cost of the postage needed to send in the forms. :)



Thanks everyone for your advice. It is greatly appreciated. :)


I just am fortunate to be able to do what I like and make a living at it. That, to me, is a dream come true.
 
As I see it, 99% of all PLC code have "no value". The time it takes to understand someone elses code can be longer than to rewrite the whole thing...

I have seen projects where they build three "identical" machines, the idea was to save money and time and resuse the code. But in the end it took very long time to change all tags etc. because the machines never was 100% identical, a few new I/O generatead a lot of work.
 
Singapore_Mats said:
As I see it, 99% of all PLC code have "no value". The time it takes to understand someone elses code can be longer than to rewrite the whole thing...

I have seen projects where they build three "identical" machines, the idea was to save money and time and resuse the code. But in the end it took very long time to change all tags etc. because the machines never was 100% identical, a few new I/O generatead a lot of work.



Without fully understanding the original code you're opening yourself up to possibly critical mistakes. This is industrial equipment, and mistakes can result in lost production, extensive repair/replacement costs, injuries and possibly even death.
 
The program itself probably isn't patentable, but the process that you developed for the rapid cool down may be.

Remember that a patent is a commercial instrument. It is intended to protect your process for a limited time to encourage technical progress, in return for forcing you to reveal the technique to promote further technical progress.

You have to weigh the cost of obtaining the patent, from a few to hundreds of thousands of dollars, against the commercial advantage obtained from that expenditure. If you feel that there is a large market for your invention that you can profitably exploit best by protecting it, you should pursue the patent. If you feel that the patent expense will exceed th profit, then it isn't worthwhile.
 
Well, you always somehow get into a situation where ur thrown into someone else's logic and you are left to make amendments without fully understanding the logic, and the client thinks that since ur a PLC expert, u should make the necessary modifications in no time at all. Thats where the problem lies. I handled one such case when i was there to commission a chinese machine having only a ladder logic without comments :). And believe me the client dont understand this situation at all..

What to do then ?????

Tahir
 
tnk786 said:
Well, you always somehow get into a situation where ur thrown into someone else's logic and you are left to make amendments without fully understanding the logic, and the client thinks that since ur a PLC expert, u should make the necessary modifications in no time at all. Thats where the problem lies. I handled one such case when i was there to commission a chinese machine having only a ladder logic without comments :). And believe me the client dont understand this situation at all..

What to do then ?????

Tahir

in that case I'd request a copy of the prints. It will show all inputs/outputs, both digital and analog. From their you can see how the original programmer handled them.
That's the best way to go. I remember a GM site I accessed through the modem, and I didn't have any descriptors, or prints. Just a frustrated tech at the other end of a cell phone. lol.. :)
But it was an Reeco/Durr RL and I was able to figure out what bits did what. I had to help my manager troubleshoot a prox issue and it worked out fine. It took a bit longer, but it wasn't bad.
 
to make things worst for u, what if the I/O drawings and documents are in chinese :) that was another problem i encountered.
 
Tom Jenkins said:
The program itself probably isn't patentable, but the process that you developed for the rapid cool down may be.

Remember that a patent is a commercial instrument. It is intended to protect your process for a limited time to encourage technical progress, in return for forcing you to reveal the technique to promote further technical progress.
I read a long time ago that 90% of all patents are for "processes". Additionally, the majority are obtained "corporately".

We all want to think of patents being obtained by the old man who wheels a wagon into the patent office carrying some crazy contraption that does something that was until now "impossible". For the most part, that's just not true.
 

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