MicroLogix 1100 Upload Question

[Foxtrot2050]

I am currently backing a Micro Logix 1100 and no-one seems to have the file for me to upload from. Is there a way for me to upload the project off the controller with the tags and everything? Kind of like how you can for Studio 5000 where you upload then create a file. If I try doing this for the Logix 1100 it uploads but all the tags are gone. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[OkiePC]

None of the documentation is stored on the controller with any processor programmed with RSLogix 500. If you can't find a copy with comments, you will have to recreate them. If I had a nickel for every time I have had to do this ...
Some tips:
1. Electrical drawings. Comment the I/O from electrical drawings if you can find them.
2. HMI. If an HMI communicates with the processor, you can often export the comments and then massage them with your favorite spreadsheet editor and import them in RSLogix 500
3. Other PLCs. If another PLC communicates with it, that can help fill in the blanks.

 

[Foxtrot2050]

@OkiePC That's exactly what I was afraid of. Thanks for the honest answer! GO PACK GO!!!

 

[padees]

I have done a lot of these myself. Reconstruction of the source file can take time.

To expand on OkiePC's comments, which are good starters. You may need another helper to backtrack physical I/O on the system to determine what it might be.
Talk to operators and maintenance that have experience with this system. They are usually a very good source for reconstruction. It's really a discovery process you are involved with, so gather as much info as you can, and make the best judgements.

In the pic attached ( I did not write this program, but expanded on the use of Symbols and page comments).

Now, to make it simple. The stuff in yellow, if you don't have the source file when uploading will be gone. The stuff in green will still be there when you upload without a source file.

I hope you get the Gist, but not many ever consider Symbols in RS500.
They are like an individual tag in the 5K platform. Very few used them.

 

[Operaghost]

Maybe there is a misunderstanding, but none of the documentation in yellow or green can be uploaded from the SLC/MicroLogix controller. The only documentation you would see would be default comments attached to Status file addresses. Those aren't uploaded, they are automatically documented by RSLogix 500.

OG

 

[padees]

Maybe there is a misunderstanding, but none of the documentation in yellow or green can be uploaded from the SLC/MicroLogix controller. The only documentation you would see would be default comments attached to Status file addresses. Those aren't uploaded, they are automatically documented by RSLogix 500.

OG

I dunno what you are thinking, but I've uploaded both that are using symbols, without the source file. In Fact, I usually use symbols when working with Red Lion because it's easier.

A symbol is not a document, It is a tag.

 

[MikeyN]

I thought symbols would be uploaded as well, but I just tested it. I uploaded from a processor that I already have documented, and as OG said the only comments in there are the status files.

 

[OkiePC]

Symbols in RSLogix 500 are not stored in the controller. They are similar to tags in that the editor allows them as substitutes for memory addresses when entering logic and ensures that they are all unique, but the CPU has no idea that they exist.

 

[padees]

Then, how could I upload from a processor I have never worked with before and get symbols?

 

[padees]

Symbols in RSLogix 500 are not stored in the controller. They are similar to tags in that the editor allows them as substitutes for memory addresses when entering logic and ensures that they are all unique, but the CPU has no idea that they exist.

Okie, I have a question for you.

If symbols are not real tags, and the CPU has no idea they even exist, how could a device that can utilize symbols, like say from a Red Lion HMI even function.

Let's say, an RS500 is using symbols that are associated with another piece of hardware.

Then, lets say someone goes in, uploads the PLC without the source file, makes edits, the SYMBOLS DO NOT EXIST anymore in the code, then downloads to the processor.

What happens to the device using Symbols as a tag?

 

[OkiePC]

Keep digging. You'll eventually prove out the truth.

We're getting old man. My memory fails me at least once a week.

Seriously, I have never programmed symbols as the data source into a red lion talking to a SLC or Micrologix. I have used indirection a lot and I have used the symbol name from an RSS file as tag names in Crimson. I have used a tag name from one Crimson tag as the data source for another Crimson tag. Those symbols do not exist in the SLC or Micrologix memory.

 

[padees]

Okie,
Maybe I already found that out a long time ago, and don't have to search.

I know how some devices use symbols rather than the standard RS500 tags. And it's not limited to any specific device.

I may be wrong, but the symbol in RS500 has an Erie resemblance to tags generated in S5K.

Just think, maybe they were building on this?

I dunno, but I've used symbols for quite some time on new projects, and working with Red Lion, it makes things easier.

Maybe I read something, and tried that, that prompted this inquiry into trial and practice.

 

[OkiePC]

 

[Operaghost]

Yep that hole is getting deeper!

I dunno what you are thinking, but I've uploaded both that are using symbols, without the source file. In Fact, I usually use symbols when working with Red Lion because it's easier.

A symbol is not a document, It is a tag.

In SLC 500/MicroLogix (I will just refer to them collectively as SLC), symbols ARE strictly a form of documentation. Earlier in my career I was a Rockwell employee and taught training classes for Rockwell for 28 years. I've got more than just a passing acquaintance with them. I can assure you, symbols are NOT tags and do NOT get stored in the SLC. Again, this is relating to the SLC 500 and MicroLogix products (as well as the PLC-5).

Other products like HMIs use "tags" as a symbolic name to point to a specific direct address location in memory of the SLC. So I might have a tag in my Red Lion device, but that tag points to a direct address location in the SLC.

The symbols are simply substitutes in the RSLogix software for direct addresses. A symbol cannot be used until it is tied to a direct address. The Logix 5000 controllers on the other hand are tag-based controllers. They do use tag names in place of direct addresses. In the 5000 family a tag name exists in the controller's memory so it gets downloaded and can be uploaded. And starting with Logix 5000 v21, all documentation also can be downloaded and uploaded. But that doesn't do any good for the SLC.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just an idiot on the internet. I dunno what I'm thinking.

Here are two snippets from the RSLogix 500 Help file.

 

[padees]

Yes, I made a mistake, and do apologize.

I looked up the last ML1400/Graphite project I did from 2018 and as the symbols import into Crimson, there is a direct address associated with them.

The reason I started using symbols with this combination is it was easier to implement in Crimson and I didn't have to remember every B, N, T... and was easier to organize.

So, my apologies.