PLC and moving data to a webserver

[goingnovation]

Hello all,

I work with internet of things and am not a PLC expert at all - that's why I need your help.

I have a customer who's running a mix of PLCs to run a range of cooling machines. Each run a very similar program. They use 2-3 datapoints from the cooling machinery and a 4-20 mA input. The client now wishes to move this data out of the PLCs and into a web environment for data analysis.

1. How can this be done across different PLCs (Beckhoff, Siemens)?
2. Is there something like a " software agent" I can put on any PLC which can then extract the data already being retrieved for the program and forward it to a webserver?
3. We also need to extract a few additional datapoints beyond what will be used in the program. Is this possible without messing with the program?
4. Can this be done from the "software agent" I imagine to exist?

Thanks a lot for any help you can offer.

Go :site:!

 

[gardarog]

For universal protocol bridging, I recommend checking out RedLions range of Data Acquisition devices.
They make this neat little device called Data Station Plus, which is designed for scenarios just like the one you're describing:
http://www.redlion.net/products/industrial-automation/controllers-and-data-acquisition/data-station-plus

I've used their HMI's before, both as operator interfaces and protocol converters, and was very satisfied with the product.
The software used for configuring the unit is called Crimson 3.0 - very nice to work with and comes free.
I had no prior experience with their HMI's, and just watched a couple of videos on their youtube channel to complete my task.
You should check out their videos on data logging and web servers:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwpegUZv5VFcBBn2qTtYMJj18-y_kMGQe

I also know that their techsupport team is very active on this forum, and will probably be able to help.

 

[goingnovation]

For universal protocol bridging, I recommend checking out RedLions range of Data Acquisition devices.
They make this neat little device called Data Station Plus, which is designed for scenarios just like the one you're describing:
http://www.redlion.net/products/industrial-automation/controllers-and-data-acquisition/data-station-plus

I've used their HMI's before, both as operator interfaces and protocol converters, and was very satisfied with the product.
The software used for configuring the unit is called Crimson 3.0 - very nice to work with and comes free.
I had no prior experience with their HMI's, and just watched a couple of videos on their youtube channel to complete my task.
You should check out their videos on data logging and web servers:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwpegUZv5VFcBBn2qTtYMJj18-y_kMGQe

I also know that their techsupport team is very active on this forum, and will probably be able to help.

Hi and thanks! As I understand what RedLion is offering, it is a hardware and software combination. I should clarify that my customer needs to keep their current PLCs in place - we simply need to extract data from the existing PLCs and move it to a web server at my company. So simplified, what we need to do is "sniff" the data already being gathered by the PLC and move a copy of it off-site. How can that be done across different PLC makes and models? Thanks again!

 

[gardarog]

This isn't actually equipment that you should replace the current PLC's with.
You could put one of these devices in the factory, and connect it to all the different PLC networks you're interested in acquiring data from.
The DataStation can be set up with many different ethernet and serial protocols for different PLC manufacturers, to name a few, Siemens, Allen-Bradley, Omron, Mitshubishi.
You can run up to 10 Network protocols on a single ethernet port, so you can look at it as being able to read data from 10 different PLC's on one port.
You can also use the ethernet ports for running virtual network protocols, e.g. serial over ethernet.

So basically, this device is implemented with many different network protocols used to acquire data from the different PLC brands.
As I understand in your idea of a "software agent", you would have to implement drivers on the webserver for translating these network protocols yourself, to which I wish you good luck...

 

[linnemann]

Beckhoff will be coming out with new IoT devices and software Q2 2017

http://www.beckhoff.com/TwinCAT-Industrie40/

The bus coupler can talk to a number of IoT services

http://www.beckhoff.com/english/ethercat/ek9160.htm

Not ready right now but maybe call the local Beckhoff office and talk with them about it.

 

[one2go]

if you know some basics with c# you can do easly with siemens. there is library called s7.net which provides communication PC and PLC

when u get communication with PLC, all you need is to create inquiry to write it in DB

but i dont know the price of this library (probably its free)

 

[goingnovation]

Beckhoff will be coming out with new IoT devices and software Q2 2017

http://www.beckhoff.com/TwinCAT-Industrie40/

The bus coupler can talk to a number of IoT services

http://www.beckhoff.com/english/ethercat/ek9160.htm

Not ready right now but maybe call the local Beckhoff office and talk with them about it.

Thanks for the links, very helpful. On page 13 of this document there is an agent just as I imagined: An agent that simply sits on top of the run time and can extract the data already being collected automatically.

https://download.beckhoff.com/download/Document/catalog/Beckhoff_TwinCAT_Industry_40_IoT_e.pdf

Do you know of something like this for other brands and makes, or simply universal?

 

[goingnovation]

This isn't actually equipment that you should replace the current PLC's with.
You could put one of these devices in the factory, and connect it to all the different PLC networks you're interested in acquiring data from.
The DataStation can be set up with many different ethernet and serial protocols for different PLC manufacturers, to name a few, Siemens, Allen-Bradley, Omron, Mitshubishi.
You can run up to 10 Network protocols on a single ethernet port, so you can look at it as being able to read data from 10 different PLC's on one port.
You can also use the ethernet ports for running virtual network protocols, e.g. serial over ethernet.

So basically, this device is implemented with many different network protocols used to acquire data from the different PLC brands.
As I understand in your idea of a "software agent", you would have to implement drivers on the webserver for translating these network protocols yourself, to which I wish you good luck...

Ok, thanks for clarifying. It still means adding a new hardware component though, as far as I understand. Correct? What we'd really like to do is simply install a bit of code or a piece of software on the existing PLCs, that can extract the data already being extracted, maybe adding a few additional datapoints.

I found this, but I am not sure how it works across different makes and models of PLCs. Can you figure that out from the fact that it works with CoDeSys 3.5+? https://plccloud.pro/.

Thanks again!

 

[widelto]

Goingnovation:

If your budget is not too tight, you can try XLReporter from sytech.com
You need OPC servers, one from each PLC you need to get data from.

Regards,

william

 

[Dravik]

Goingnovation -

If all the PLCs can/are networked, You can use an OPC server(s) to pull data from each of them. This would be external to the PLCs.

Codesys offers an OPC server already, You would just need to either write software to pull what you wanted, Or use existing software on the market for it.

 

[Bit_Bucket_07]

Ok, thanks for clarifying. It still means adding a new hardware component though, as far as I understand. Correct? What we'd really like to do is simply install a bit of code or a piece of software on the existing PLCs, that can extract the data already being extracted, maybe adding a few additional datapoints.

That's an idea that you should abandon. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. You simply need a PC that can communicate with your PLCs via existing IO Server software and provide you with their data.

 

[gardarog]

Ok, thanks for clarifying. It still means adding a new hardware component though, as far as I understand. Correct? What we'd really like to do is simply install a bit of code or a piece of software on the existing PLCs, that can extract the data already being extracted, maybe adding a few additional datapoints.

Yes, your right that it comes with the disadvantage of having to install new hardware.

I found this, but I am not sure how it works across different makes and models of PLCs. Can you figure that out from the fact that it works with CoDeSys 3.5+? https://plccloud.pro/.

Thanks again!

Dravik and Bit_Bucket have already clarified this.

 

[goingnovation]

Thanks for all your input. Allow me to sum up my understanding.

There are various ways to accomplish the goal

Data acquisition device: add a hardware component to the network that will capture the information being sent today. The concept is good, but the scenario we're working in would mean adding a lot of these devices, which makes it too expensive.

Using new Beckhoff equipment: an idea for the future, their new line-up looks great. But as they can't exchange the PLCs that's for another job.

OPC: use OPC server(s) to extract data from the PLCs. I have made an illustration (attach) to explain the setup. There are 1000 cooling units over a very large area. In general there is 1 cooler to 1 PLC. Each PLC is then connected up to a SCADA.

- Will using OPC require us to have an OPC Server on each PLC in this scenario?
- If no, if we only add a single OPC server at the consolidation layer, that would mean having a few thousand tags on one OPC server, is that even possible?
- Can an OPC server not running on the PLC, address the cooling device directly (ie making the PLC sort of transparent)? That will be necessary in order to extract the additional datapoints they want to extract for analysis in the cloud.

Thanks again :site:!

 

[widelto]

Gingnovation:

Normally you need only one OPC server if all the plcs are the same brand and protocol.

 

[goingnovation]

Gingnovation:

Normally you need only one OPC server if all the plcs are the same brand and protocol.

OK, thanks. But I assume I will have to define the tags on the PLC then right? The OPC Server can talk "through" the PLC directly to the devices, can it?