Siemens programming help

[James Mcquade]

Hi all,

i am the new controls guy at the plant and i have inherited a pc from the previous controls guy with Siemens tia portal version 16 and 17 installed.
it is a dell windows 10 pc with a usb, ethernet, and serial port.
we have Siemens S7-300 with a 9 pin port, S7-1200 with 9 pin port, S7-1200 with ethernet, and Simatic ET 2000sp with ethernet
what interface cables do i need so i can upload the programs?
i don't know if there were any files on the laptop or if i deleted them by accident. my undelete files search on the back up drives were not helpful.
the current pc does not have a file undelete utility.
the allen bradley and omron items are backed up, no issues there.
also, will i only get the rungs with no descriptions on these units?

thank you in advance,
james

 

[parky]

the 9 pin port is usually MPI if I remember correctly you will need the MPI adapter pretty exspensive but I believe there are some non siemens ones that are cheaper, the others just a straitforward ethernet cable, you will have to set the coms type again if I remember correctly this normally an icon either on the desktop or system tray with a spanner or some other icon & siemens logo on it. If you upload from the 300 then almost cetainly there will be no comments are you sure there are no files for the PLC's normally in directories cannot remember the extensions but in Step7 classic the extensions are things like .S7p I think, also it will depend on the firmware version on the 300, early versions cannot be edited in TIA you would need S7 Classic, It can be loaded & monitored but not changed.
LD on here will give you all the relevant information

 

[geniusintraining]

what interface cables do i need so i can upload the programs?

Hey James,

So the 300 should be MPI and maybe Profibus, look on them and look close at the ports DP is Profi and MPI is MPI, the software will depend on the CPU and how old it is, some older 300's dont support TIA, I sell the cable below and should work fine, we have others that cost more (a lot more) but that one should work

Siemens 6GK1571-0BA00-0AA0 PLC S7 USB to MPI ProfiBus DP PPI 32 64 bit

PLC Cables, PLC Trainers and Industrial Automation Supplies

www.plccable.com

The 1200's have ProfiNet and just use a Cat5 (ish) cable, should be able to access on your network if its connected to it and same with the ET, you should be able to click Add Device and see whats on the network

 

[dwoodlock]

This is the usb-9pin adapter they make which typically can be used for mpi or dp connections.

There is also a huge cp5711(I think memory is hazy) which works as well but it’s collossal and comes in a bag/case an used an external power supply.

 

[geniusintraining]

I also sell the CP5711, but just for connecting to a 300 I dont think most people need them, they run around 1200.00 bucks, some applications its a must

 

[RVaughan]

Replies above have your cables sorted out.

Filenames for TIA Portal are .apNN, where NN is the Portal version (16, 17...). But the single file is not the project, you need everything in its containing folder.

If your older CPUs were programmed with Simatic Manager, you will need to get familiar with a program called Set PG/PC Interface. Basically you select which communication adapter the software will use to browse the network, and the properties of said adapter.
For connecting to MPI/Profibus you may be able to use the Auto setting to detect the network properties (baud rate, etc.), and then change the interface to match.

 

[James Mcquade]

thank you everyone,
james

 

[James Mcquade]

i have another question for everyone, i have 2 cables that i need identified.
#1 it is a cabletech technology B7864490. 9 pin female to rj45 cable.
could this have been used to connect to the siemens plc's?
#2 is 9pin male to rj45 - no identifiable brand name. about 18 inches long.

there is also a star tech usb to 9 pin male cable. could that have been used to interface with the siemens plc's?
james

 

[mk42]

i have another question for everyone, i have 2 cables that i need identified.
#1 it is a cabletech technology B7864490. 9 pin female to rj45 cable.
could this have been used to connect to the siemens plc's?
#2 is 9pin male to rj45 - no identifiable brand name. about 18 inches long.

there is also a star tech usb to 9 pin male cable. could that have been used to interface with the siemens plc's?
james

#1 based on my gut and very brief googling, it's a standard serial to RJ45 cable, often used to connect to the console port of something like a managed switch. It is NOT for ethernet, just for connecting serially to devices who have a serial port that is an RJ45 socket. I dunno why this ever became a thing, it just confuses everyone who sees it the first time, but I guess an RJ45 port is smaller/cheaper than a DB9 maybe? Not relevant to Siemens PLCs, maybe useful for some of their switches.

#2 probably the same thing.

#3 is probably a standard Serial to USB dongle. MPI/Profibus are based on RS485, but they're a very specific protocol, and not supported by general tools. Not saying you can only get profibus support from Siemens, but if it doesn't specifically say it supports it, it doesn't.

 

[mad4x4]

the allen bradley and omron items are backed up, no issues there.
also, will i only get the rungs with no descriptions on these units?

That is normal, you have just uploaded the program, the Symbols are never downloaded to the PLC, you would need to have opend the Logix program and uploaded into it to keep the symbols.

 

[JesperMP]

#2 is 9pin male to rj45 - no identifiable brand name. about 18 inches long.

Careful with that one. It could be a proprietary serial cable.
There is the off chance that you damage something if you plug this into the DB9 on the S7-300 CPU, and the RJ45 into your laptops LAN port.

edit: Actually, do not plug either #1 or #2 into the RJ45 of a standard LAN port.

There exists MPI-to-Ethernet adapters in the shape of a compact adapter that plugs into the DB9 port, but these have prominent labels on them, so I don't think the cable you have is one of these.

 

[James Mcquade]

thank you for the replies.
the one thing that does not need to happen is to damage / trash the siemens plc with no program or spares.
it has been a long process to get all the systems backed up, finding the manuals & prints. the siemens units are the last obstacle.
james

 

[joseph_e2]

I'll also warn you not to plug just anything into the 9-pin port on the PLC. That port has 24V on a couple of pins to provide power to the PC adapter and can fry other devices that aren't expecting it. Also (bitter experience here) make sure no one else accidentally leaves a null modem adapter plugged in or your (expensive) PC adapter will become a brick with wires on it.

 

[mk42]

That is normal, you have just uploaded the program, the Symbols are never downloaded to the PLC, you would need to have opend the Logix program and uploaded into it to keep the symbols.

Note that this is true for S7-300. 1200 and 1500 (et200sp CPU is 1500 class) should have symbols/comments/etc downloaded. The trick is uploading them. For TIA Portal you need to exactly match the Portal verison you're uploading with to the version that downloaded to the PLC. If the Laptop only has V16 and V17 installed, hopefully that means all the Portal PLCs were downloaded from one of those two. From inside Portal, there's a way to detect which Portal version the PLC has. Note that the Portal version has nothing to do with the PLC FW version, which is much more flexible. Every version of Portal supports every prior FW, and future FW is spare part compatible with past FW.

Also note that for some reason failsafe PLC uploads are more complicated than standard PLC, dunno what the safety strategy is that the plant. 1200F doesn't support uploading safety code, which means you effectively can't upload the PLC into a new project. 1500F DOES support it, starting at v15ish, but the trick is that it's an option that's off by default. The PLC needs to be compiled and downloaded with the setting active before the failsafe code can get uploaded, which also means that you effectively can't upload the PLC into a new project.

Note that you can take a binary backup of the PLC as well. Doesn't help you edit it, but at least it can be re-deployed later for disaster recovery purposes.

Siemens REALLY wants you to have the offline projects, uploads are emergency only (pretty much where you're at now). Does either version of Portal have anything in the "recent projects" when you go to open one? I'd also recommend checking the settings to see if there is a Project Server/Multiuser Server defined besides "Local Project Server",

The support entry below has some useful info on uploading, and several useful links with more info.

SIOS

support.industry.siemens.com

Careful with that one. It could be a proprietary serial cable.
There is the off chance that you damage something if you plug this into the DB9 on the S7-300 CPU, and the RJ45 into your laptops LAN port.

I wish I had explicitly said this in my comment above, so I want to emphasize this. Plugging serial RJ45 into an ethernet port will very likely burn out something, and that's doubly true for Profibus/MPI. I think it's usually the ethernet port that dies, not the serial side, but you don't want to risk it either way.

 

[parky]

If you have any S7-400's with the older ethernet card (Think it was called CP243 or something like that) then be careful, this older card had DB9 connectors but was ethernet, The week I started a new job that, weekend the shift engineers had a problem, one engineer did a reset of the PLC, however, I believe he either did a total reset deleting the program or removed the PSU (Batteries are in ther PSU card) they did not have my number as it was my first week in the job, they called in a local systems house that ironically were working on modifying a system that was almost identical both were done by the same Dutch company, they called in the UK based engineer from the dutch company who downloaded what was supposed to be the correct program, this got the PLC back up & running, however there was still a problem, the system had a lot of profibus valve islands & when I arrived on the monday they said that the problem was one of the valve islands, I took it 150 miles to the manufacturer who tested it & said it was repaired, when we fitted it still gave the same problem, this turned out to be a e-stop on the plant (takes off the 24v to the islands) still a problem, then I noticed that the Scada system was not communicating, saw this RJ to 9 pin adapter where the power led was dimming every 3 or 4 seconds, went to RS who had one (not the same type) but hey presto up & running, so 3 days of lost production, 4 guys working on it at a huge cost was down to this adapter, a day later we noticed that the stirrers in the cooling tanks were not running, turns out the UK based engineer's version was not a current copy as a mod some years previously had inverters fitted for varying the agitators so they were not running, as a quick fix I set the speed at 50% as a minimum & a dutch engineer came over & downloaded the upto date program. So even on the older Ethernet cards they used 9 pin 232 type sockets ?.
This just goes to show that a simple mistake by an engineer cost somewhere in the region of 12k in engineering time & god knows how much in lost production all for a little £30.00 media converter, Even if the problem had been diagnosed I have some reservations that the engineers may have tried to plug the MPI cable & programmer into the Ethernet card.