Bricked PLC5

[co_mimi]

While flashing the memory of Allen-Bradley PLC5 controllers to the latest revision, we have "bricked" a few controllers (wiped their internal memory). AB has been charging us nearly replacement cost to restore these units. I've tried needling them for less expensive fix but haven't gotten anywhere.
Right now, I have 3 bricked PLCs on my shelf. Does anyone know of a less expensive solution?
Thanks!

 

[PLCMentor]

First I would be curious as to why you need to flash to the latest. If you dont have to have the latest revision to achieve something I would leave them alone. PLC5's go for very good prices on Ebay. I have bought several there myself with success. The ethernet PLC5's are much more expensive there; however, if you just need an old plain vanilla 5/40 then it can be had for a few hundred bucks (not thousands).
Russell

 

[Tim Ledwith]

I've got to agree with Russell. You're better off leaving the PLC5's as they are unless you really need to upgrade the firmware. The only one I had to upgrade was an older 5/40 which I wanted to work with a new Ethernet sidecar.
Tim.

 

[bikerdude]

HI,
I have been working with PLC5 for 15 years. I have only updated the firmware once. That episode was for the addition of a "Side Car" Ethernet unit. The firmware was on some removable memory chips that had to be physically pried from the circuit board. I have not been exposed to any software based firmware on a PLC5 yet. Lucky me I guess!
If the firmware is being loaded over serial link, ensure that all cables are top quality. Unsure that the laptop screensaver or power saving mode wont kick in right in the middle of the action or else enlarge the brick shelf!

BD

 

[co_mimi]

First I would be curious as to why you need to flash to the latest. If you dont have to have the latest revision to achieve something I would leave them alone. PLC5's go for very good prices on Ebay. I have bought several there myself with success. The ethernet PLC5's are much more expensive there; however, if you just need an old plain vanilla 5/40 then it can be had for a few hundred bucks (not thousands).
Russell

We flashed because AB urged us to. We were having intermitent PLC5 failures. They were suspecting ControlNet issues and wanted some new software loaded to the PLCs that were on the later revisions.
I will never do it again!

 

[Ken Roach]

I have flash updated dozens of PLC-5 Series D, E, and F controllers over the serial port and never "bricked" one. I refuse to do them in the field; I always perform the update on a workbench, with my hands in my pockets.

Keep pushing for a discount on the repairs, since they happened during a process that should not have been very risky, and since they don not involve hardware rebuild, just in-system PROM reprogramming.

In my experience, you have to interrupt the flash update of a PLC-5 to cause it to fail. It can be a serial port power saving feature or a USB/RS232 interface (I NEVER use these for Flash transfer) problem, but it has to be *something*. It doesn't happen randomly.

 

[PLCMentor]

Yeah I think then that I would urge them to replace the controllers that died. How would control net cause plc5 failures. Do you mean faults?

Russell

 

[co_mimi]

Yeah I think then that I would urge them to replace the controllers that died. How would control net cause plc5 failures. Do you mean faults?

Russell

We were having controllers crash with their memory wiped. AB suspected power spikes, CNet noise, etc. We were having this occur about once every 2 months. We had an AB engineer out and he recommended the flash upgrade and replacing any suspect looking CNet connectors. This seemed to do the trick because we have not had this problem for about 2 years. However, my PLC5 Bricks stare at me every day.
We did know about the cable and PC timeout issues. During a shutdown, I pulled all the controllers (about 50) and flashed them carefully using the same good (new) cable and laptop. Everything seemed to be going fine, but then 2 PLC's bricked without any apparent cause.
Has anyone tried using a non-AB repair shop? Any recommendations or warnings?

 

[Lancie1]

Well 2 out of 50 is not a bad failure rate. You may have found a way to weed out the bad apples. In order to write in new programs, all firmware memory locations must be capable of accepting a new value. If only one microporcessor memory location is bad, the upgrade will fail. that may be the reason the upgrade was suggested. However, it could be an easy way to gain new business also!

 

[Controls_Engineer79]

hahahaaha sounds like something AB would do.... just to pad their sales figures for the year