InfraRed with PLC

[flukie]

I've bought one of those universal remote controls for my house. I also would like to install an PLC ( prob. OMRON) to control my house. I'm looking for ideas on how to make a connections between the InfraRed signal of the remote control and my future PLC. Any pointers?

Best Regards,
Stefaan

[Mike]

flukie,

I have seen an Omron PLC with an IR port at a chicken house. This allowed the chicken farmer to use a palm pilot to download and upload settings to the PLC. This was done by Omron and I don't know if they are selling this as a standard product or not, but they do have it already. You may want to check with your Omron guy to see if this is a standard product.

[flukie]

Thank for your quick answer Mike,

I get what you write there but there is a general difference between RS232 infrared communication ( i think that this was used at the chicken-house ) and infrared remote control ( very fast signal, about 300 µs duty cycle if I understood it well ). My problem is that i don't know how to get that signal in my PLC. Perhaps there excistst something like a infrared RC5-code to RS232 convertor, or RC5 to the plain bits, or... i've been googlin' some hours but without an out of the box solution.

I'll keep on looking !

Best Regards,
Stefaan

[Terry Woods]

I've done some searching myself and I don't find an RC5/RS-232 connection. It appears to me, at least at this point, there ain't no such critter!

Basically, you are talking about an InferRed Transmitter transmitting codes according to the RC5 standard. Then, after transmitting those codes, you want some device to receive those codes, and then, have that device pass the code onto the PLC over an RS-232 line. Then, you expect that the PLC will understand those codes!

Sounds simple enough! It AIN'T!

I do KNOW that this kind of action is occurring somewhere in the world (IR to RS-232)! Although, not in the case of a PLC!

I don't know of any PLC's that accept or understand RC5 Code. The only ones I've seen that accept IR code, at all, are the one's that accept a proprietary code for down-load.

I don't think you can send RC5 data directly to the PLC via RS-232 as long as the PLC does NOT know what to do with that data!

The problem is, as I see it... the PLC does NOT know what the hell RC5 is, and doesn't know it when it sees it!

The only way that I can suggest is, using RC5 with 4 code bits (serial transmitter), build a serial receiver (using Siemans SHF506-36) and send that output to a serial-decoder and then send the decoded signals to 4 PLC Inputs.

Considering the advantages, this sounds like a real good thing to include in PLC communications!

[kalle]

This project looked so interesting that it made me use google....

I found one IR/RC5-RS232 converter: http://www.oem-remote.com/ir2pcrec.html

If you have a PLC that have ASCII-mode, it shouldn't be that hard to write a PLC program performing some task related to key codes from the remote control. But be sure to check the communication capasibilities of the PLC before you pick a brand/model!!

Do you know the format of RC5? Format, data bits etc?

Let us know how this project is going!!


Terry wrote:
"The problem is, as I see it... the PLC does NOT know what the hell RC5 is, and doesn't know it when it sees it!"

Terry, thats why PLC have ASCII mode. So the PLC programmer can write a comm.-driver. Have done this myself for different protocols.


Regards
Karl Egil Liaset

[ganutenator]

How about a PLC with an ethernet port. You could then hook that up to a wireless ethernet port. You could then get a Palm Pilot with a wireless ethernet card. Write VB app that runs on CE. Write communication driver instead of trying to use RSLinx. Yeah, I know, sounds tough, but now you could turn off appliances after you left the house.

[Peter Nachtwey]

Ganutenator has a good idea. The Omron FINS protocol is realitively simple to implement over Ethernet. I have customer that use wireless Ethernet and they love it because they can program the PLC from a remote comfortable office location instead of on the noisy uncomfortable factory floor.

[flukie]

Thx for good pointers so far !

Terry, I doesn't matter for me on which way I have the RC5 code into the PLC, by binary form or by characters, after all I'm common with writing drivers for printers, scanners, transmitters, etc for PLC's. But indeed you got a point there that it isn't just plug & p(l/r)ay... Your solutions with the serial/parallel convertions interest me. I've been doing some googlin and found an interesting schematic on http://www.geocities.com/tjacodesign/remote/remote.html . I understand the logic and this would be really nice to be able to buy it somewhere built. However, I'm considering building it myself.

Kalle, the format of RC5 can be found at : http://home.t-online.de/home/Holger.Heinemann/homepage.htm?rc5.htm . It's german language but has nice pictures ;-)

Ganutenator/Peter, your solutions sounds gorgeous but my prolem is that I want with my remote control ( a www.pronto.philips.com ) to be able to control my home theatre also. However, it still looks very cool to be able with my palm turn on my lights... And i'll keep on eye on it to make my life more comfortable in the future :cool:

Best Regards,
Stefaan

[Terry Woods]

Sounds like a pretty good approach. I did have a hard time following some of the notes on the description of that hand-sketched circuit.

I wish he would follow-up on the note on the side "Make this Better" or something like that.

In any case, it sure would be nice if you shared your results with us!

[kalle]

Stefaan

If you are going to build something yourself, here is a site I saw while I was googling: http://people.a2000.nl/rwvgesse/projects.htm (the site need some time to load)

A IR to RS232 useing a PIC16F84 with description of circuit, hardware and software.


Keep us updated! Good luck!


Regards

Karl Egil

[flukie]

First I didn't have a solution for my connection between infraRed remote control and my PLC and now I have two 'worth trying out' things.

a) Infrared signal train converting to parallel bits and connectins with digital inputs
- looks into my eyes the cheapest & easiest one to build. In the local electronic shop the IC costs about 14 EUR ( 11,5 $) - unfortunatly not in stock javascript:smilie(%27%3A(%27)

b) Infrared signal converting to serial communication.
- More expensive ? More specialised stuff. EPROM-Programmer needed ?

Except of converting the serial communication to a value of control programming of both looks the same into my eyes : creating edges of the input which control the state of control.

What would one else choose to build yourself ?

Regards,
Stefaan

[Steve Crotty]

Heres a link you might be interested in http://www.qkits.com/serv/qkits/diy/pages/QK92.asp

I am not sure if that is the type of thing your looking for (I dont know much about IR TX/RX) but if not they have some more kits on the website.

Good luck :)

-Steve

[Eric Nelson]

I'm not big on "home-brew" stuff... :rolleyes:

Check out this IrDA PC Adapter (http://www.extendsys.com/ESI/Products/Wireless+Connectivity+Products/IrDA+Adapters/Product+Detail/XTNDAccess+IrDA+PC+Adapter.htm) from XTNDAccess. For only US$62.10, it might be worth experimenting with. At least THIS way, you'll know the HARDWARE part works...

-Eric

[rc45]

Flukie,
I'am looking for also for a infra red RC5 - rs232 decoder. Which solution have you implemented?

[dandrade]

Have Micro PLC (made in brazil) is native IR, it accompanies a "control remote" with 5-8 keys. Have 8 inputs/6 outputs and 8 inputs config DC input or analogic 10 bits.
For automation house products tecnologic X10 incorporate is perfect.Concept inject signal in wire power VAC and plug-play interface box.
Two standart-based Pulse and time (old) and RC5 coding sequence and frames, is microsegund time base.
Change job and deleted directory eletronic.Before make eletronic circuit, to go check project.Good find solution.

Have good ideas implementation houses. What you makes?

[danw]

Actisys makes IrDA devices, many for Windows platforms, plus some software tools.

http://www.actisys.com/

Somewhere on their site, I remember seeing an IrDA tutorial

[elevmike]

Here's a kit that can detect a IR transmitter and toggle a relay. The relay contacts can be wired to any input on the PLC.

http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1600.htm


Here's another that has 10 relays.

http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1618.htm

there's more...

http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/complete.htm

Better yet (IMO) go for RF remote control. Line of sight not necessary, & better range.

http://www.electronickits.com/remote_control/remotecontrol.htm

None of this is rs-232, but it might be better suited to a home project, and a lot less expensive.


Have fun..

[svn]

How about a PLC with an ethernet port. You could then hook that up to a wireless ethernet port. You could then get a Palm Pilot with a wireless ethernet card. Write VB app that runs on CE. Write communication driver instead of trying to use RSLinx. Yeah, I know, sounds tough, but now you could turn off appliances after you left the house.
I think Palm Pilot has different OS (it is not Windows CE) so VB program can not be used. PocketPC may be required (which is more expensive compared to Palm) for using VB program.

SVN

[DaMan]

Flukie?

Just out of curoisity, what do you want to have the PLC 'control'? room lights, heat/AC control, etc.? I'd suggest you take a quick look @ X-10's web site, for some info. Also, years back there was a product named "Butler-in-a-box", not sure if its still out there tho'

[john r]

I only recently come accross this forum and was fascinated to read the discussion about converting RC5 to RS232 codes. At the risk of appearing to be advertising I have designed and built small units for my own firm for the audio visual trade. They usually respond to our own IR codes but decoding RC5 is also possible. The incoming IR information doesn't have to be related to the outgoing RS232 codes in any way because the RS232 data is stored in a look up table in the convertor.

Relay contact outputs can also be fitted to respond to input commands.

JohnR