Way OT: Looking for a shoulder to cry on...

Well, it looks like I am going to soon be out of a job.

As many of you know, I started back to school Sept. 04 to finish my EE degree. At the time my boss wasn't really happy about it, but I did my best to accomodate him and get to school. I worked night and weekends, still giving him 40+ hours a week. Last March, he sent me an email stating that it was not working for him even though machines were shipping and orders were still going out the door. He said that I could finish the semester, but after that he wanted me back fulltime. I did work full time during the summer (regular workweek plus trips). This Sept. I started up again at school. He knew that I was going to continue my education because it was important to me and I feel that it benefited him but he was not happy about it.

Last month, He gave me an ultimatum: quit school or he would be forced to hire someone else that could be there during the day. I told him I had to finish because it was so important to me. He told me that he did not consider that a degree was that important. During this time, I was was also skipping classes to accomodate him during emergencies. All this was not enough though. In his eyes, I am quiting the company. I do not see it quite that way, but, there really is nothing I can do. I told him I would stay as long as he needed me to get the new person up to speed (i still need the money). In all honesty, I really do not want to see the company fail and I believe it would if I left abruptly. I have known him for 15 years and we have developed a friendship over this time.

I did suggest to him that maybe I could still work there on the weekends in a consulting position to continue designing new systems (this is really what I want to do anyway. I do not want to go on trips anymore) He seemed open to that but nothing more was said.

Last night I found out that he was going to be interviewing someone today for my position. I am not sure how I feel right now; kind of wierd.

Anyway, I have a question: what would be a reasonable consulting rate? I was thinking along the lines of $50 an hour but wanted to see what some of you independents get. Do you charge extra if you have to make trips? Right now, he is paying me $37 with no benefits. (according to a salary calculator, for the Chicago land area, someone with my level of experience (15 years) AND a BSEE should be making $45/hour plus benefits. This is another good reason to want to get the degree)

I feel a bit strange. I have not been without a job for almost 20 years. I do know that finishing school is the best thing to do in the long run. Me and my family will be able to benefit greatly from it in the future. The near term is what bothers me.

Anyone out there looking for a consultant that will work nights and weekends? Telecommuting is a must. (I have school to go to ...hope to graduate in Dec 2007) lol


Anyway, if you have gotten this far, thanks for reading. I realize that this is not exactly PLC related.
Bob

Bob, I think you need to evaluate the situation more closely. If he likes your work and you like working for the company then thats half the battle we have when it comes to a career.

If you are taking 12hrs (or more) of classes and working 40+ hours a week you are trying to do too much.

Maybe you can talk with your boss again and come to a compromise. It may be possible to take 6hrs a semester (possibly one class a day) and he would accomodate the schedule...ie an 8-9:15 class or 5:30-6:45.

Who knows what will happen if you develop a dialogue, the company make pay part of the tuition. It may take a little longer but the company (not just that boss) will see what you have done and what effort you put in doing it...who knows what that will offer in the future.

My personal opinion: Do not lose the job if possible and develop a compromise. Take night, weekend or online classes when possible.

NOTE: I am basing most of my answer assuming your college provides classes the same as mine...classes may be 2 or 3 days a week, MW or TT 1hr 15 min, MWF 50 min, and Saturday 4 hours. Core curriculum is usually available between 8:00 am and 5:30pm. I would have to check on Advanced classes but usually they are available early AM.

Wish I had positive words of advice to bestow upon you , BUT , I lost my job to 3 imported Indians who could be hired for the price of ONE ME.

I just love outsourcing and H1B visas.

rsdoran said:

Bob, I think you need to evaluate the situation more closely. If he likes your work and you like working for the company then thats half the battle we have when it comes to a career.

If you are taking 12hrs (or more) of classes and working 40+ hours a week you are trying to do too much.

Maybe you can talk with your boss again and come to a compromise. It may be possible to take 6hrs a semester (possibly one class a day) and he would accomodate the schedule...ie an 8-9:15 class or 5:30-6:45.

Who knows what will happen if you develop a dialogue, the company make pay part of the tuition. It may take a little longer but the company (not just that boss) will see what you have done and what effort you put in doing it...who knows what that will offer in the future.

My personal opinion: Do not lose the job if possible and develop a compromise.

Click to expand...

Maybe I should have stated earlier. My boss is the owner of the company. My tuition so far has been paid for by the Illinios Veteran's Grant. I already know that he will not pay for tuition (says he cannot afford it). The company has been crying poor for 3 years now with very small annual raises and no bonuses.

In some sense, I am geting burned out here. I make suggestions, but he does not act on them. His mentality has been take any job no matter how much it costs the company just so long as it is bringing business in the door. I am finding that I do not want to work like this anymore. When it happened occasionally, I could deal with that but now that is the way the businees is run.

Yes, I am taking 4 classes a semester (12-14 hours). It has been tough but I have my wife's full support which has made that part bearable.

The thing that gets me is that I have been able to keep up with the workload. The only thing I am unable to do is answer troubleshooting calls if they come in but we have a tech support person already here that can do that. The owner feels that if that person is already taking a call then I should be here to take an other one if it occurs while he is already on the phone. This does not happen that often. But, it is his company and it is his right to set what he wants the job description to be.

I hate to put a damper on things, but if you think it was difficult juggling your class schedule and your work schedule as an employee, what makes you think the juggling is going to be any easier as a consultant? It's never easy to hold down a full-time job while pursuing a degree, and being a consultant is akin to holding several full-time jobs.

From the boss' perspective, not having you around during traditional business hours means that someone else is covering for you. There are a lot more things that go into shipping machines out the door than just putting the pieces together. Who is talking to the vendors? Who is talking to the customers? Who is answering the questions from the people on the shop floor on the day shift?

Taken further, the boss probably figures that you'll be expecting a substantial raise in pay the day after you get the degree. But he'll be asking himself,

"Why is Bob with a degree worth more than Bob without a degree? He's still Bob. He'll still be doing the same job. I can't charge more for the machines I sell simply because Bob has a degree. What's in it for me?"

He's also figuring that if you don't get that big pay increase, you'll be off in search of greener pastures, so he might as well be proactive.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not deliberately being unsympathetic, I'm just trying to be realistic.

Do you have to go to school during the day? Are none of your courses offered at night? How many credit hours are you taking per semester? It seems to me that the biggest issue is that you're not available enough during traditional business hours. If you can reach a reasonable compromise on that, you might be able to stay where you are.

On the other hand, the boss may simply be a micro-managing control freak who can't deal with an employee who is capable of acting independently.

rsdoran said:

NOTE: I am basing most of my answer assuming your college provides classes the same as mine...classes may be 2 or 3 days a week, MW or TT 1hr 15 min, MWF 50 min, and Saturday 4 hours. Core curriculum is usually available between 8:00 am and 5:30pm. I would have to check on Advanced classes but usually they are available early AM.

Click to expand...

Most of my classes are right in the middle of the day MWF with labs on Tues or Thur. It is a 1.5 hour commute (via train) so if my class ends at 2:50 I cannot make it to work until about 5:30.

It does not make sense to only take one class because of the amount of dead time does not change. It would only gain me an hour or two more at work.

This semester coming I will have labs on both tues 8:00-1:50 and Thurs 8:00-10:50. On thur the train coming back get me home around 12:30.

I hope the situation works out for you in the end...a thought occurred to me that perhaps the boss is leery of you getting a degree because then you might be qualified for his job...

In any event, here's something to consider when determining a consulting rate if you go down that road...make sure you set your rate not only to a level that will be supported by the market, but also for your lifestyle needs.

If you are currently earning $37/hr w/o benefits and you are hired as a consultant for $50/hr w/o benefits, you're making $13/hr more, right?

Not necessarily...keep in mind that as a self-employed consultant, you are responsible not only for your income tax, but you are also required to pay additional Social Security taxes that your employer is currently responsible for. Therefore, it's possible that you could be in a tougher position financially than if you stayed the course...

Rick

Steve Bailey said:

I hate to put a damper on things, but if you think it was difficult juggling your class schedule and your work schedule as an employee, what makes you think the juggling is going to be any easier as a consultant? It's never easy to hold down a full-time job while pursuing a degree, and being a consultant is akin to holding several full-time jobs.

From the boss' perspective, not having you around during traditional business hours means that someone else is covering for you. There are a lot more things that go into shipping machines out the door than just putting the pieces together. Who is talking to the vendors? Who is talking to the customers? Who is answering the questions from the people on the shop floor on the day shift?

Taken further, the boss probably figures that you'll be expecting a substantial raise in pay the day after you get the degree. But he'll be asking himself,

"Why is Bob with a degree worth more than Bob without a degree? He's still Bob. He'll still be doing the same job. I can't charge more for the machines I sell simply because Bob has a degree. What's in it for me?"

He's also figuring that if you don't get that big pay increase, you'll be off in search of greener pastures, so he might as well be proactive.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not deliberately being unsympathetic, I'm just trying to be realistic.

Do you have to go to school during the day? Are none of your courses offered at night? How many credit hours are you taking per semester? It seems to me that the biggest issue is that you're not available enough during traditional business hours. If you can reach a reasonable compromise on that, you might be able to stay where you are.

On the other hand, the boss may simply be a micro-managing control freak who can't deal with an employee who is capable of acting independently.

Click to expand...

Steve,

I do not consider what you had to say unsympathetic. You are right. I have asked myself these things several times.

There is only one school in the stsate of IL that offers a nighttime EE degree. That is IIT and they charge $800 per credit hour. All the other colleges in the area are state colleges and only offer engineerng degrees during the day.

Rick,

Thanks for that info. I knew that I would have to pay my own income/SS taxes but was not aware that my employer had to pay something into SS also.

Steve Bailey said:

I hate to put a damper on things, but if you think it was difficult juggling your class schedule and your work schedule as an employee, what makes you think the juggling is going to be any easier as a consultant? It's never easy to hold down a full-time job while pursuing a degree, and being a consultant is akin to holding several full-time jobs.

Click to expand...

Oh, and I meant that the owner would pay me to continue designing for the company but as a consultant instead of an employee. This way, I could still bring money in and provide him with my experience so he would not have to close the doors when I leave. I realize that this may sound conceited, but I am a key member of the company. There is no one here that can do what I do.

You also touch on being here to talk to vendors, customers, etc. That is true. In my present state, I am only able to perform those duties in a reduced state.

Bob

Bob-

It sounds like your boss feels like he is second fiddle to your educationn and he feels slighted. Awwww, poor little Johnny had his feeling hurt.

Granted, we are only seeing your side of this but it certainly sounds like you are being very accomidating and your boss has no particularly solid reason for his decision. But in the greater scheme of things reason doesn't matter. Your boss signs the paycheck. So for all intent and purposes his perception is reality.

As is the case with most things in life, you need to make a decision about what is more important to you. It sounds like you have and that your education is more important. I'm not going to make a relative value judgement on that but I would say stick with what you feel is important. If you begin to waffle back and forth you will end up with nothing. Cast your die and let the game progress as it will.

As for 'consulting' fees, it depends on what you are calling consulting. If you are truly consulting, that is using your intelligence and experience to solve a problem or define a design path, I would say that $100/hr and up is more reasonable, especially in the Chicago area. I could get that amount up here. If you are just looking to be a rent-a-pencil or a detailer the $50/hr is probably more in the ballpark. Not that that side of the equation is any less valuable. Its just that there are more guys out there that can do that. If it's blend then either bill the time itemized separately (which I have done in the past) or come up with a composite rate based on what you think the blend will be. You should probably also factor in a little bit to make your boss pay for his initial idiocy, but that's just me being vindictive. Some of the guys here will vehemently disagree with this, but to a certain degree your rate will be determined by how bad you need the money versus how bad your boss needs your expertise.

Ultimately this is an emotional thing with your boss. Given that, reason probably won't work anymore. One thing you can hope for is that your boss interviews a bunch of people and can't find anyone to replace you. From that standpoint it is better that this is happening today versus 3 years ago. You may be safe simply due to lack of options.

Good luck.
Keith

There is only one school in the stsate of IL that offers a nighttime EE degree. That is IIT and they charge $800 per credit hour.

Click to expand...

How do they get students? Thats an absurd rate. I pay $132 credit hour at the University of Alabama in Birmingham http://students.uab.edu/academics/show.asp?durki=5558
I thought that was high.

It is hard for me to think of a northern state offering less than a southern state in opportunities of technological education, the south was slow to industrialize.

Now that more details were provided it can be a dilemma, just be aware that when the job is gone your lifestyle may change dramatically faster than expected. As mentioned when self employed their are numerous issues involved there, you will also need to pay for Workmens Compensation and possibly other insurance requirements...search the threads on self employment posts.

Keith,

You are right in that everyone here is only getting one side of this. I am not trying to portray the owner as a mean spirited person. In fact, I like the guy. That is what makes this so tough. We have known each other for almost 15 years and have become friendly. I think this decision is tearing us both up. I do understand that this is his company and he wantst ohave someone here during the day. Unfortunately for me, at this time I cannot be that person. I have to persue my dream. I do not want to look back at the end and have any regrets.

rsdoran said:

How do they get students? Thats an absurd rate. I pay $132 credit hour at the University of Alabama in Birmingham http://students.uab.edu/academics/show.asp?durki=5558
I thought that was high.

It is hard for me to think of a northern state offering less than a southern state in opportunities of technological education, the south was slow to industrialize.

Now that more details were provided it can be a dilemma, just be aware that when the job is gone your lifestyle may change dramatically faster than expected. As mentioned when self employed their are numerous issues involved there, you will also need to pay for Workmens Compensation and possibly other insurance requirements...search the threads on self employment posts.

Click to expand...

There universities around that will offer a nighttime EET degree but after consulting with a few EE's that I know, they told me do not bother and go for the full EE degree instead. At the college I go to right now (UIC) the tuition is based on number of hours taking at a time. For 12+ it is $2841 (236/hour). So it pays to take as many hours as you can because it is cheaper in the long run.

Bob,

As far as the consulting thing goes, figure how much you cost you employer right now. Salery + benifits + Fica (employers portion) + workers comp..etc. Then add about 10-20% = a reasonable hourly rate.

Employer psyc 101. Your leaving anyway. (that's what he's thinking). Your going to get your degree and move on to other bigger ops. So he's dealing with it now as it will give him more time to find the right guy, rather then dealing with it later. The reason I saying this is that in his mind, when you get your degree you'll be worth more, and qualify for a wider range of positions, both of which he might not be able to accomidate. So get out the crayons & color Bob GONE.

From my own perspective we assit with tuition, but there are rules. There's and anual cap, & we only re-emburse for classes direcly related to the employees position. (for example if they are doing accounting we wont pay for phys ed class). The tuition is re-embusred, (employee must pay up front) based on the grade: A=100% B=75% C=50% D=0%. Clases cannot interfere with a max of more then so many normal working hours (I think it's 8)a week. Our controller (single parent) just got her MBA this way. I'm proud of her accomplishment but it was inconvient working around her schedual for the past 2 years.