OT Finding unlabeled lighting circuits in offices

The company I am working for has issued a new policy about light switches are not allowed to be used a lockout point(even with a osha approved lockout device). Example:changing a ballast in a light fixture. The plant is 30+yrs old with half the panel not label or labeled incorrectly. We cannot work the fixture hot becuase of lock out tag out rules. Is there any device that can trace a cirucit without taking the cover or wires loose. We have plug-in tracers that work good on outlets but we need something that clamps over the romex or circuit wire for the light circuits and hard wire items.


Any advise would be appreciated

There are many available, they are called circuit tracers and some can be used with power on. http://www.electricaltools.net/circuit-tracers.shtml

rsdorin,
We have the greenlee wire tracer now. It works wonders on hot rec circuits. The new policy doesnt want us to remove any covers with the power on. We were using the light switch with a lockout when changing ballasts but they have banned this practice. They want us to go to the closest breaker. There are plenty of panels that are labeled wrong or not at all. I would like to find something like a clamp-on to go over the romex on the outside of the fixture. If there is nothing like that then we will just randomly flip breakers till we find the right one. Maybe they won't lose to many files from the computers we turn off. Hope they are know how to save

The correct concept is to use the circuit tracer, when possible, to LABEL all breakers as they should be.

Nothing can clamp around romex and provide an indication of the source, clamping around both wires eliminates any signal.

Simple fact is that when doing electrical work you will need to open a breaker panel from time to time and management must realize this...i.e. how would you replace a breaker when necessary if the panel could not be opened?

You can just flip breakers till you get the right one and label it then OR you can use the tools you have and make a project of labeling the breakers so each panel is done all at once. This may require working overtime when the plant is not active OR turning off lights etc during business hours.
The how is up to the company and those that "UNDERSTAND" what is necessary, all I can do is offer suggestions for what you asked for...which I did.

2004 please accept my apologizes for being a cantankerous and condescending old man.

From your previous posts I assume you are young and fairly new to this field with a decent education but still learning all the variables.

I, nor anyone here, knows everything but many of us have already been where you are. At some point in your career/life you will have to know when to develop an understanding of the situation then obtain ALL the information you can and stand firm on the route that needs to be applied.

In your current situation where "management" has decided that the breaker panel, which is not properly labeled, must be used as the lock-out point then it is necessary to make a point that they must be properly labeled for this to happen. Whether this is done "live" or on days the plant is shutdown is dependent on the capabilities of the people involved.

It appears that you are in the position that is most relevant to this type situation, therefore you need to learn to be more emphatic about getting things "done" to promote their new rules.

Safety is first now, so look and understand the situation then develop a plan that will implement safety and the ability to comply with their new rule OR the possibility of amending their rule if needed.

There have been several threads addressing the use of KNOWLEDGE. Management may make decisions but the idea is to use your KNOWLEDGE to make those decisions applicable to the situation.

labeling breakers

A couple of years ago we went thru our plant (took several months). We found every breaker and put stickers on every switch,receptical, and machine. I hated it while we were doing it. We did it slowly and did small sections at a time. It is great now to simply walk into a room and see a sticker on the receptical and go directly to that panel and breaker to shut it down. One thing to remember is to tag the new stuff that gets installed. We made putting stickers on the machine and breakers part of the start up check list to make sure this is done. We labeled all panels with a letter and then used the breaker #. A typical sticker on the machine would read AA 3,5. this would be the sub panel atached to A and breakers 3 and 5.

Something that could be done ALONG WITH PROPER TAGGING but it would take alot of time to accomplish is to install a recep and plug for every light.
Doing this accomplishes a couple things, first sometimes it is quicker and easier with less impact in the area to replace the light, second working on a bench is definetly safer for all, and unless more than 1 light is in need of repair the entire area of the circuit does not need to be darkened.

Some areas where I am have been working toward this for a couple years already and the benefiets have been seen for sometime already especially the plant lighting where using a lift for an extended time in certain areas is fairly disruptive to production.

Drewcrew6

I'm so glad to be working in new design rather than maintenance, just because of this kind of headache. Every single new installation I design is comprehensively tagged and labeled (and documented on drawings), and I personally inspect to make sure that its done properly.

When tracing a circuit, safety is always more important than convenience, so be sure to stress that to whoever is in charge. If you can't open a device while under power, then you have no other choice but to start opening breakers.

If you are working in maintenance or repair, take a little bit of extra time whenever you work on something, to make sure the tagging is appropriate. This is very important for safety, as well as troubleshooting, and it's worth it.

$

2004sk4...

I would like to find something like a clamp-on to go over the romex on the outside of the fixture. If there is nothing like that then we will just randomly flip breakers till we find the right one. Maybe they won't lose to many files from the computers we turn off. Hope they are know how to save

Click to expand...

That's exactly what you should do, flip breakers till you get the right one. If you cut off someones computer or critical power to whatever then so be it. when they come crying to you , you explain {calmly} that you are just doing your job within the rules set forth by OSHA and the company and to take the matter up with your supervisor or manager. This usually forces someone in management to actually manage.Just my 2 cents

Later...Todd

We ended up pay some contractors $70,000 to flip breakers in our place to trace all our circuits because of lockout/tagout policies and time constraints.

We had a sly ol' contracted electrician working for years in the place that figured if he just kept it all in his head (or more likely, personal notebook) that he'd have a customer for life.

The situation didn't work out in his favor...

The contractor we hired to map everything out used a fairly cheap circuit tracer and a lot of patience. The ol' sly electrician was fond of running 3-5 120 circuits with a single common and the circuit tracer had a tendency to bleed across all 4-5 circuits. The two guys doing the job got real good at picking out wich of them was the real deal by how many LED's lit up on the reciever. Then they'd confirm it by flipping the breaker off during non-production hours.

The thing that kills me is that I asked to make it a requirement on all electrical contracts that panel schedule updates and at bare minimum contractor reports of changes/additions to our distribution system be provided, but I still can't get it pused through. 70K out the window I guess...