RS-232 or RS-485?...

Eric Nelson

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Which would be the better choice to use for communications between only 2 devices (no multidrop needed). Very short distance (less than one foot!).

Just deciding what to use in connecting a A-D GS2 drive to a DL06 PLC for MODBUS communications. Both will work, just wondering if one method is better than the other for this application.

I didn't post a poll since I'd like to know WHY as well... :D

Comments? Suggestions?

beerchug

-Eric
 
My area..MORE THAN YOU WANTED TO KNOW

Single Ended Data Transmission
Electronic data communications between elements will generally fall into two broad categories: single-ended and differential. RS232 (single-ended) was introduced in 1962, and despite rumors for its early demise, has remained widely used through the industry. The specification allows for data transmission from one transmitter to one receiver at relatively slow data rates (up to 20K bits/second) and short distances (up to 50Ft. @ the maximum data rate).

Independent channels are established for two-way (full-duplex) communications. The RS232 signals are represented by voltage levels with respect to a system common (power / logic ground). The "idle" state (MARK) has the signal level negative with respect to common, and the "active" state (SPACE) has the signal level positive with respect to common. RS232 has numerous handshaking lines (primarily used with modems), and also specifies a communications protocol. In general if you are not connected to a modem the handshaking lines can present a lot of problems if not disabled in software or accounted for in the hardware (loop-back or pulled-up). RTS (Request to send) does have some utility in certain applications. RS423 is another single ended specification with enhanced operation over RS232; however, it has not been widely used in the industry.

Differential Data Transmission
When communicating at high data rates, or over long distances in real world environments, single-ended methods are often inadequate. Differential data transmission (balanced differential signal) offers superior performance in most applications. Differential signals can help nullify the effects of ground shifts and induced noise signals that can appear as common mode voltages on a network.

RS422 (differential) was designed for greater distances and higher Baud rates than RS232. In its simplest form, a pair of converters from RS232 to RS422 (and back again) can be used to form an "RS232 extension cord." Data rates of up to 100K bits / second and distances up to 4000 Ft. can be accommodated with RS422. RS422 is also specified for multi-drop (party-line) applications where only one driver is connected to, and transmits on, a "bus" of up to 10 receivers.

While a multi-drop "type" application has many desirable advantages, RS422 devices cannot be used to construct a truly multi-point network. A true multi-point network consists of multiple drivers and receivers connected on a single bus, where any node can transmit or receive data.

"Quasi" multi-drop networks (4-wire) are often constructed using RS422 devices. These networks are often used in a half-duplex mode, where a single master in a system sends a command to one of several "slave" devices on a network. Typically one device (node) is addressed by the host computer and a response is received from that device. Systems of this type (4-wire, half-duplex) are often constructed to avoid "data collision" (bus contention) problems on a multi-drop network (more about solving this problem on a two-wire network in a moment).

RS485 meets the requirements for a truly multi-point communications network, and the standard specifies up to 32 drivers and 32 receivers on a single (2-wire) bus. With the introduction of "automatic" repeaters and high-impedance drivers / receivers this "limitation" can be extended to hundreds (or even thousands) of nodes on a network. RS485 extends the common mode range for both drivers and receivers in the "tri-state" mode and with power off. Also, RS485 drivers are able to withstand "data collisions" (bus contention) problems and bus fault conditions.

To solve the "data collision" problem often present in multi-drop networks hardware units (converters, repeaters, micro-processor controls) can be constructed to remain in a receive mode until they are ready to transmit data. Single master systems (many other communications schemes are available) offer a straight forward and simple means of avoiding "data collisions" in a typical 2-wire, half-duplex, multi-drop system. The master initiates a communications request to a "slave node" by addressing that unit. The hardware detects the start-bit of the transmission and automatically enables (on the fly) the RS485 transmitter. Once a character is sent the hardware reverts back into a receive mode in about 1-2 microseconds (at least with R.E. Smith converters, repeaters, and remote I/O boards).

Any number of characters can be sent, and the transmitter will automatically re-trigger with each new character (or in many cases a "bit-oriented" timing scheme is used in conjunction with network biasing for fully automatic operation, including any Baud rate and/or any communications specification, eg. 9600,N,8,1). Once a "slave" unit is addressed it is able to respond immediately because of the fast transmitter turn-off time of the automatic device. It is NOT necessary to introduce long delays in a network to avoid "data collisions." Because delays are NOT required, networks can be constructed, that will utilize the data communications bandwidth with up to 100% through put.

I could offer more but I think this should be enough. The answer is "it depends", if you can live with low baud rates (ie using something standard like 9600 or 19200 etc) as specified above then RS232 is as good as any in most cases.
 
A couple of specific comments:

If you have multi-drop, you should use RS-485.
If you have lots of noise, you should use RS-485.
If you have long distances, you should use RS-485.

If none of the above apply, you can use RS-232.

In you case the VFD may generate noise, which would indicate RS-485 could be better. If there is no cost difference, I'd use RS-485. Note, however, that a lot of VFD keypads use RS-232 and work just fine. If there is any kind of cost penalty then RS-232 is the way to go.
 
Oh yeah, like YOU actually wrote that Ron... :rolleyes: ...Don't you know that plagiarism is a crime?... (n)

Only kidding, Ron... Good info!... :nodi:
I thought you'd chime in on how "RS-doran" it WAY better than "RS-232" and "RS-485" will ever be!... lolis

Thanks Tom for your comments. "Self-authored", no less!... :p

The only additional cost to go 485 is the time it takes to add 2 jumpers to the DB connector on the PLC end. This is offset by not needing to spend the time to flip two DIP switches on the drive end... :rolleyes:

IOW, there's no cost difference, so I'll use 485... :cool:

beerchug

-Eric
 
MOI a plagiarist???? How many people here you know that consistently use " " in their posts?

I will never tell if it tis or if it tisn't.

Overall 485 offers more options but as you see it offers slightly more costs but in this biz that cost is nada BUT 232 in many cases..ie single connection, short cable length, standard baud rate with the use of a good grade cables can exceed the length limitations and performance issues.

I too would go with 485 tho if the option was clearly available with just the changing of a few switches.

I never claimed to be a plc or pc programmer but I am fairly well versed in computers and communications associated with them, those technologies are well known and documented. I spent years learning them, working with, and building PC's then the field got "crowded" and "tight" so I went back to maintenance and working with plc's.

Looks like in the next month or 2 I will again be looking for another field or place to practice whatever it is I can do. Life goes on.
 
Sorry Ron, GOOGLE ratted you out... A quick copy and search reveals that your verbage is from www.rs485.com... moon2

beerchug

-Eric

P.S. I assume the " " comment was directed at me?... Guilty as charged... Though I tend to (over)use them for "emphasis" rather than "quoting" purposes... :p

P.P.S. What's this "Looks like... I will again be looking for another field or place..." about?... Something happen at work?... :confused:
 
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yes correct on both, that was from rs485.com (wont go into details on who wrote it tho).

work is work, looks like in the very near future I have to seek another place to practice my ignorance but not due to incompetence just one of those life/work things that happen that is no fault to either.

Life goes on.
 
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