Directlogic to motion control

Hey again everyone!

I am looking to desigign a new control system for an X Y table routing table) we are going to use for a metal tab ultrasonic welding application. This table currently uses MACH3 software for control, but we are wanting to incorporate it with an automation line. The PLCs we use are Direct logics 205 with a 250-1 cpu. the motors are all nema 34 stepper motors. It will have X Y Z and possibly A axis(head rotation) so my question is, can I do this strictly with the PLC, bang bang type sequensing using v-memory cordinate input, or would a motion controller, linked with a PLC be better? Y and Z will be hard fed coordinates, while X will be fed coordanites configured by the PLC thru a Keyence laser sensor. If PLC/Motion controller relationship is the best way, which type(s) should I look into, that will work best with the 250-1? and how will they affect the PLC from controlling the rest of the automation line? COST IS DEFINATELY A FACTOR! employed by a company with very shallow pockets! (automotive)
Thanks for any input you may have!

Is is going to be the same pattern all the time? Are you talking a few points or a bunch?

You could program it using basic stepper control cards and sensors for each position. But if you need multiple products or there a lot of points, then this would be difficult.

Along the Y axis, there will be 8-16 operator input locations, so Y will only travel to these points, no stopping in between. Z is either up or down, so no more than 4 operator input set location points here. X is going to have to be controlled by laser interpreted points by the PLC ( or motion controller). There will be up to 164 of these points, all logeed for data tracking. So, while Y and Z stay in there current position, X will be traveling and logging set points, via laser location, and then stop at each set point to do the weld operation, then continues to the next along the X axis. Y will only cahnge when this path is complete, and control calls for it. The Z axis moves the welder in and out of welding position (2 locations) and A, if incorporated, will rotate the head 180 degree, and also 'float' to log orientation information back to the server... so thats another consideration, all points are logged at each weld.
thanks

these points are for each 'part', then the X setpoints will be reset, except for the home, and overtravel points, to allow logging of the next part. a little more info: the plc will also communicate to a fanuc articulate that will be doing the plastic welding, and also controlls a compressing machine, already running, and conveyo and packing equipment. So memory may also be an issue. currently, I have about 15% of the cpu capacity used, operating the pressing, conveying and packing equipment. not yet integrated with the robot.

To simplify things, If a PLC isn't the right choice, what motion system can I use easily and cheaply (or the most cost effective) that will tie in with the PLC system already running. (D2-250-1 cpu)
PS, I have only done simplistic servo and stepper operations using a PLC, 1 or 2 axis, and I have NO experience with motion controllers, or 'CNC' type programming. Although we have MACH 3, I have not had the chance to play with it yet. So my experience is with PLCs alone

This would be trivial if it weren't for the stepper requirement

What ever you do, get a real motion controller. It would take too much time/money to reinvent the wheel compared to the upfront hardware cost of a motion controller. Also, it looks like your DL250 has too much to do already.

Thanks Peter, I have heard this, but haven't the first clue of where to start. We do have MACH3 now, but doesn't seem very operator friendly, and I dont know wheather to try to incorporate it, or purchase a new system, and if so, what system to get. I should have mentioned before, they want this line to be as operator friendly as possible, and not have any PCs on the floor, thus (I believe) would rule out MACH3. I have encorporate touch panels, and they want the entire 'operator' control to be done with these panels, including any v-memory set points.
Thanks Again, Nick

NACarnes:

I think I may have an option for you in this case. You can use IDT4 from AMK. This is a relatively small integrated motor-servo drive, which also can behave as stepper. It uses modbus RS485.
I have used it with a DL06 and a C-MORE HMI, I feel works great, and as difference with stepper you can get the actual position all the time.
Having a computer with Mach3, seems no to fit, as then you are gonna need to use G-Code.
Hopefully this helps.
Best regards

If i were purchasing new then i would go knocking at Peters door to see what he could offer you.

http://www.deltamotion.com/

We don't control steppers yet with our 3rd generation controllers.

504bloke said:

If i were purchasing new then i would go knocking at Peters door to see what he could offer you.

http://www.deltamotion.com/

Click to expand...

I would have spoke up if we had a stepper motor driver, yet, so our controllers are out of the running. Also our motion controller is relatively expensive compared to normal stepper motor controllers. At this time all I can recommend is to do a search for "stepper motor controller modbus/TCP". The Modbus/TCP allows the motor controller to talk to the AD250. Next one needs to do some research to see if the controller will be able to do what NACarnes requires.

The problem I see is that most stepper drivers are very inexpensive and don't have all the bells and whistles that full motion controllers have like the plotting and logging. It will be interesting to see what the alternatives are.

Thanks for the input guys! I will be checking around, just wanted to know if anyone had ever had a similar application before, and could save me some 'homework'. My initial thought was steppers to I/O card with the PLC doin the work, due to ease of application, but wondered if there was a better, easier, and cheaper way. Thanks for all your help! Any other input would be greatly appreciated! PS, Peter, if cost wasn't a factor, servos with motion control would definately be the way I go, but as always, it is definately a factor... especially these days! Thanks again!

Doesn't AD have stepper cards?

That would help a lot. It is nice to have the stepper motion controller take care of doing all the ramps for you instead of writing this from scratch. You at least need a high speed pulse generating card.

Just a quick recap, I ended up using Two CTRIO cards to control the stepper motor drives. Lots of programming, but seems to be working beautifully. I am running 4 passes and scanning and logging 24 points per pass. scanning is being done with a analog laser sensor from Keyence. I then go to every other point after each scan to weld, ultrasonicly. The reason it is every other, is because it is orientation dependant by 180 degrees, thus explaining the four' paths. 'X' and 'Z' are set through HMI inputted values, 'Y' runs along the scanned values. As I said, lots of programming, but is working good. I still agree with you, Peter, servo would been so much better, but this has been cost efficient, and they are happy... Next step is robotics!!!