Allen Bradley or Schneider???

Hello All,
I am currently working on a site that has all Schneider PLC’s – the infrastructure is ageing and part of my remit within the project is to assess what to do with respect to upgrading the controls... The main topic at the moment is which PLC do we go with for the upgrade? We have 2 options on the table – Allen Bradley and Schneider. We already have some new Schneider stuff on site and therefore it seems like the logical solution – but I really want to ask some questions to the suppliers so as to attain what is the best long term solution... So – my question to the masses is simply what sort of questions should I be asking? As a start – I was thinking:
Product support availability
Longevity of product (Shelf Life)
Like for Like Costs
Any help will be as usual – much appreciated

I see a lot more Rockwell kit out there than Schneider, but I guess its as much a region dependant thing as an industry dependant thing.

I would go for the Rockwell since support is a lot wider, although if you are replacing any HMI's, dont bother going down the Rockwell route. Use another company like Red Lion or Wonderware.

I would look ask the following:
1. Who is the local distributor for each and how far are they from the plant?
2. What is their inventory like?
3. How is their tech support?
4. Are they there for you if there is a problem or do they have a don't care attitude once the sale is made?
5. WHAT WILL TECH SUPPORT COST PER YEAR?

answers to questions like that go a long way in making a decision
regards,
james

I agree with both comments above. My (very limited) experience with Schneider has been that their products are not quite as long lived as A/B, especially their VFDs.
Also I tend to agree that there are a lot less Modicon/SquareD/Telemecanique/Schneider PLCs out in the wild, and therefore less expertise out there too.

Currently I am stuck with 60 some odd Altivar VFDs that are all obsolete (all bucket mounted naturally). We have some new (< 1 year old) equipment with Altivar31 drives and those apparently have gone bye-bye too. So, especially with their drives, they change lines too much for my taste.

agree with okie regards the drives, but recently worked in a plant with a large rack mounted Telemechaniqhe PLC which was installed c1984, still performing well.

Can you narrow down which Schneider products you have installed ?

Groupe Schneider's long acquisition and history path means that you could be looking at a Square-D SyMax or a Modicon 984 or even a Telemechanique Premium.

I've done some interesting Modicon to A-B conversions for low-downtime systems in which we retained the I/O hardware. It depends on how old yours is and how much downtime costs.

Another consideration is to see what's being taught at your local vocational school. In my area, vendors fall over themselves to give hardware to Perry Technical Institute so that they have an advantage in the local labor pool.

Quoted from James - 5. WHAT WILL TECH SUPPORT COST PER YEAR?

Rockwell seem to be the only company that makes additional revenue from aftermarket costs.
Schneider still support older products -
I have only recently used their Twido range.

you need to calculate the future costs.
- I don't Know Schneider on going costs.
- AB - Factory Talk
- Firmware Upgrades
- software requirements
- Software Upgrade/updates
theses are not necessarily pro's or con's - you just need toi look at them.

I haven't worked with Square-D and Telemecanique in quite a long time and while I found the hardware to be adequate, the software at that time was severely lacking and the support was virtually non-existent. Again, it's been a while since I used either and hopefully that has changed. But I would suggest you consider the software usability as a factor.

But as Ken says, we need to verify which system you are referring to when you say Groupe Schneider. They used to have a Schneider branded PLC and another I think was called "April" on top of the ones Ken mentioned.

OG

I use a lot of Schneider gear (when given the choice)
I find their FREE tech support to be excellent (most problems resolved within 24 hours
They are leaders as far as innovation goes
- all their ethernet based devices (plcs, drives) have built in web servers and have for years
- most ethernet products have dual ports (allowing easy ring type configuration
- all the current plcs use a single programming package (UnityPro)
- this same programming package is used to setup all the communications
- this same programming package has built in DTM/FDT capability (useful for setting up instrumentation devices etc)
- UnityPro has user defined types and user defined function blocks that are even editable online (to a degree) (AB only discovered Add On function blocks recently and they are still not editable online)
- UnityPro supports all 5 IEC languages (FB, LAD, ST, IL, SFC) within the standard package
- IO scanning function allows communication networks to be setup by simply filling out a configuration table (no plc code to write). This can be used to communicate with other plcs, drives and io devices
- PLCs (ethernet) have built in DHCP servers and a FDR (faulty device replacement) capability which saves and can restore ethernet devices configuration
-natively supports ModbusTCP, EthernetIP, Profibus, Can, Modbus
- etc etc

Also the latest version of UnityPro even supports running 984LL code, so if your current system is a Modicon 984 based system, then there is no conversion of code required - connect io to new cards, change the address of the io within the program - and then (in theory) plant should be up and running

Maybe AB should read GeoffC's Post.
In fairness the Aussie Supplier will offer free support and usaually high end information - but they are tied down.

This may or not be of any consequence but I'm working with a major diesel engine manufacturing plant that is implementing a plan to replace all of their Modicon equipment with Rockwell. New equipment is spec'd Rockwell and they are slowly replacing the existing Schneider products with Rockwell while using the existing I/O wiring (as Ken has eluded to). Reasons: difficulty with replacement parts, tech support lacking, and hard to fit products into a larger enterprise scheme (ie FIS - factory information system). Sorry, I don't know all of the details.

I agreed with GeoffC, their support is good and so is the technology. I’m surprised more people aren’t using the M340 PLC and Unity software. If the site already has some new Schneider PLC’s that are not being changed I would go for Schneider.
But it’s all down to the customer, I’ve replaced AB with Schneider and vice versa.

Having had experience with many PLC's there is a huge lack of marketing in Australia(Victoria) we here more form other manufactures rather than Schneider.
Schneiders own fault.

Funny thing with Schneider, do not like the software - too slow - or their annual support fee which is ridiculous. I can buy a brand new set of complete Omron software for less than the Schneider annual support fee. I also get web updates when available at no cost. My only cost is when there is a major revision and the cost is less than 25% of a new package.
Phone or email support is also free and not dependent on paying an annual fee.
Same with AB, no pay annual fee - no support.

Bob, your frequent comments on Omron have me very curious. I have checked out some of their PLC specs and prices and honestly, they look fantastic. We are almost all A/B here, but someday, maybe I will get the opportunity to try one. We have some power doors with Twidos in them. We recently had to pay the OEM of the door $1800 for a new one already programmed. The boss was gritching and boaning about it and I offered to stick a Micrologix in there, but he didn't want to fuss with it. One of the little Omron bricks would be more than enough.