Need help again, please.

Hello everyone,

Can anybody give me a tip on what kind of Allen Bradley PLC to have my boss at work buy, I have been writing simple plc programs for a few years now and I am learning more and more as I go on, compared to professional what I write is rudimentary.
But now at work we are going to refurbish all production machines as well as the ones at our other plants. I have always used what PLC processor is in the machine I never had to choose/buy one before, I don't know where to start, it will be for cold header machines, and there are only about 16 input devices and about 7 output devises and about 5 indicator lights.
I need the smallest PLC processor that I can use sort to speak, I don't know the difference in cost from a SLQ/5 to a SLQ/500.
This is going to be an ongoing project at work, one machine at a time being completely taken out of production and rebuilt.
If anyone can give me a suggestion I will gladly take it.

Thanks,

Rick M.
3 NOV 14

For new applications, don't pick the SLC line. That's an old platform. Look into the MicroLogix line for low I/O counts, Compact Logix for higher numbers of I/O. Get in touch with your local AB distributor and ask to have someone come to your facility and evaluate your needs.
If you want, post his recommendations here and people will be able to tell you whether or not he's trying to sell you more than you need.

For low I/O counts like that, I would go with the Micro800 line. The software is free, the size is small, the cost is low. But then again I don't know what other capabilities you are looking for and whether or not you need inter-connectivity to higher level systems. That's why you should do as Steve Bailey said, call your local AB distributor and start a dialog.

Rick,
Looking at your previous posts, your plant seems to mostlly use Allen Bradley PLCs, so you may want to try to stick with that brand.

The MicroLogix 1100 with 2 add-on I/O modules can do all you listed (16 Inputs, 12 Outputs if some of those indicator lights are not also output devices). The MicroLogix 1100 is a small PLC and has the advantage of being programmable using the free version of RSLogix500 (so you can get your own copy and work on programs anywhere, not just at the plant). There are 4 basic ML1100 models available, 2 with 120/240 volt AC inputs, and 2 with 24 VDC inputs. There are 5 add-on digital Input modules and 5 Output modules available to give you a wide range of possible I/O terminals. Should you ever need analog I/O, that is also available for the ML1100.

You should be able to find most of your needed information on the ML1100 in the Rockwell Automation Literature Library:

http://search.rockwellautomation.com/search?q=Micrologix+1100&filter=0&btnG=Search&client=literature&output=xml_no_dtd&proxystylesheet=literature&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&getfields=*&num=10&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&ulang=en&entqrm=2&wc=200&wc_mc=1&ud=1&exclude_apps=1&site=literature

Thanks to all of you, now I know not to order a SLQ/500 or something like that at a high cost to do something that it is oversized for, and the capabilities that I will be needing are only simple input limit switches, and the same for output devices (either on or off) not any portional valves or anything like that. And also I didn't know that Allen Bradley had free software for the laptop to interface with the PLC, I thought you had to always buy it with the license for each processor.


Thanks again,
Rick M.

P.S. There isn't a HMI either, so no CAN buss, I don't know anything at all about HMI programing or the either net or LAN that it used to talk to the PLC.

Thanks again for your help.

7romero1 said:

Thanks to all of you, now I know not to order a SLQ/500 or something like that at a high cost to do something that it is oversized for, and the capabilities that I will be needing are only simple input limit switches, and the same for output devices (either on or off) not any portional valves or anything like that. And also I didn't know that Allen Bradley had free software for the laptop to interface with the PLC, I thought you had to always buy it with the license for each processor.

Click to expand...

PLC technology has advanced a lot since the old days, although not quite as fast as desktop computers. You can get a small cheap PLC to do something that used to require something much larger and more expensive.

I think MOST of the Rockwell software costs money. as far as I know, it is only the Connected Components Workbench for the micro800 line that is free. Note that micro800 is different from micrologix. I'm not sure what software the micro logos line uses, maybe Logix500? I think RS5000 is control/compact logix only.

You also need to think about what you might want to do with the equipment in the future. I don't know what kind of machines they are but you might want to add analog inputs and outputs in the future. Sometimes adding proportional valves or servos could speed up the machines. If that is a possibility than consider the ability to expand the I/O. You might also consider networking in the future, even if it is just to monitor the machine performance. Don't buy something that can't be expanded if that is a possibility.

Thanks once again to all, the only PLC programming that I know or have ever uses is "RSLogic" I am not sure if that is a type in it self or it is just one of many others, example RS5000 and Logix500 I don't know anything about, the book that I have had and have been using and learning from for years now refers to everything in it as "RSLogic" I didn't realize that it was out of date, from listening to you guys it sounds archaic.
And again all I can say is thank all of you for helping me.

Rick M.
4 NOV 14

Personally if I were you I would go with the new CompactLogix L16 or L18 plcs. Yes they are a little more expensive than the Micrologix 1100, but they come with 16 inputs and 16 outputs already built in (which would appear to be enough for your needs), with expansion capability. It also allows you to use Studio 5000 (formally RsLogix 5000) which is a lot more user friendly than RsLogix 500.

I personally avoid Micrologix as much as possible, yes the Micrologix 1100 and 1400 are much better than the older micrologix, but RsLogix 500 just feels so "old" compared to Studio 5000.

Just my 2cents.

Thank you, I will look into that, I remember a "Micrologix 1000" from a long time ago, and if I understand what you just wrote to me it has a fixed input and output buss, and as you said it has a cable port on the side that you can add another (expansion) if you need more I/O bits. I think that the Micrologix 1100 you are teaching me about is the same type, no slots? just a hard molded plastic case.

are you (A) doing this job/project/assignment MOSTLY just to "get it done" and make the equipment work? ...

or ...

are you trying to (B) MOSTLY learn new programming skills – which might be useful to you (personally) in the future? ...

if the answer is (A) then the MicroLogix 1100 is "probably" the best bet ... it can be programmed using a free version of RSLogix500 ... (note that other versions of RSLogix500 are not free – but you wouldn't need those versions for the MicroLogix 1100) ...

on the other hand ...

if your answer is (B) and you want to use this project MOSTLY as a stepping stone for learning up-and-coming skills which would look better on your resume – then a CompactLogix system would probably be better for you ... this would be programmed using RSLogix5000 – which is now being called "Studio 5000" for the latest versions ...

just a tip:

just because a certain platform is "older" does NOT mean that it's not worth learning ... there are still TONS of that older hardware out there faithfully chugging along – and the bosses are not going to yank that stuff out and replace it just because there's something new and different for sale ...

based on what you've posted, I can assure you that you'll have quite a bit of "learning curve" ahead of you if you decide to go with the newer CompactLogix platform ... COULD you handle it? ... ABSOLUTELY yes ... would it be worth the extra effort to learn the newer software in the long run? ... PROBABLY yes ... would it help you get the this particular assignment up and running quicker? ... almost certainly NO ...

here's a question that I am VERY FREQUENTLY asked by students who are making the transition from RSLogix500 to RSLogix5000: "Do we really NEED all of these extra [expletive deleted] bells-and-whistles just to turn the pumps off and on?" ... the simple answer is "No" ... but this newer way of doing things is NOT going to go away anytime soon – and learning it for the long run would be a "good" idea ...

so to nail it all down, my advice would be:

(A) to get your systems up and running as quickly and easily as possible – go with the MicroLogix 1100 and RSLogix500 software ... most people find that system easier and simpler to learn – and to work with ... (especially for smaller/simpler projects) ...

but ...

(B) if you're willing to invest some extra time and effort to learn some new and marketable job skills for the future, then the CompactLogix hardware with RSLogix5000 (Studio 5000) software would be a better choice ...

now-a-days, most employers want to see ControlLogix/CompactLogix hardware – and RSLogix5000/Studio 5000 software - on a resume ... (but there ARE exceptions to that – so ask if you're interested in knowing about that particular angle) ...

and just for completeness, in my own personal opinion, the Micro800 would not be something that I'd even consider ... notice that this platform is NOT in the same family with the Micro-LOGIX hardware – and even though the software is free – I'm told that it cannot be programmed in the "plain vanilla" Ladder Logic language ... I believe that it's something more like a flavor of "function blocks" that nothing else on the planet uses ... DISCLAIMER: I'll freely admit that I have not played with one of these yet – and I might be converted and actually like it if I ever tried it out ... but I can tell you that (so far) I have had ZERO customers asking about training on this platform ... it hasn't even been mentioned – not once ... so if you're even remotely interested in developing "marketable job skills" then personally I'd suggest that you leave the Micro800 on the back burner for now ...

I hope that this helps ...

The answer is the first one "A", I am not trying to learn other PLC languages, if that is the right term to use. I am not sure of the name of the PLC programming that I have been using, the book just calls it RSLogic, some examples that I can think of are like this:

T4:15= timer number 15, (TON or TOF) I understand the bit word here and that bit 13,14,15 are reserved for timer timing, timer enabled and timer done not necessarily in that order.

C5:18= Counter number 18 and the reason it only count up or down so far because of the binary 16 bit places and zero counting as start point or zero.

one shot rising

emergency stop (Master Control) zones how the rungs in between the start and stop rungs will not be able to change states when the E-stop is pushed.

B3:17= bit logic or an internal relay number 17

comparative functions equal to, greater than, less than etc.

The 3 different type of Sequencers and the array, step number, mask, etc. (although I have never used this function)

Does this sound like RSLogic500?

I need to know so if I have the boss order the 1100 I will be able to under stand (write) how to program it sort to speak.

or is it an old form of PLC programming?

Thank you for your help.

Rick M.

Rick,

If you're a relative beginner with AB PLCs, it will take years for you to get to the point where you need the functionality of a Compact/ControlLogix PLC. Contrary to what others have said, I find the RSLogix 5000 software (I guess it's called Studio 5000 now) to be unintuitive bloatware and avoid it as much as possible. In your situation I would recommend learning RSLogix 500 and concentrating on the Micrologix line of PLCs for now. If at some point you do decide to dive into the higher end Logix, many of the programming concepts are similar or identical.

At our facility, we use Micrologix for about 90% of our machine build projects. They are very capable PLCs if you take the time to learn. That's not to say they're perfect... CompactLogix certainly has advantages in many areas, but it's just not worth the headaches IMHO.

For the Micrologix 1100 and certain models of the 1000, there is a free version of RSLogix 500 available. If you want to shell out about $130, you can get the RSLogix 500 "Micro" version that works with the entire Micrologix range.

http://ab.rockwellautomation.com/Programmable-Controllers/MicroLogix-Systems

To answer your previous question, all of the Micrologix PLCs can have I/O modules added except for the 1000. The number of modules you can add varies depending on the series.

kolyur said:

If you're a relative beginner with AB PLCs, it will take years for you to get to the point where you need the functionality of a Compact/ControlLogix PLC. Contrary to what others have said, I find the RSLogix 5000 software (I guess it's called Studio 5000 now) to be unintuitive bloatware and avoid it as much as possible.

Click to expand...

Firstly I dont want to sound confruntational at all here but what about RsLogix 5000 to you is unintuitive? I find it much more intuitive than RsLogix 500, just want to know because maybe its something I´ve overlooked.

Regards
Ian