Distant I/O over Fiber to PLC5/20 ?

TheWaterboy · Dec 9, 2015

I need to read and write I/O points that are 1500 feet away from a PLC-5/20. I will shortly have fiber run that distance in prep for the day that the PLC is replaced and a better solution can be implemented. But...
...until that day comes I have to use the PLC-5/20 to read and write these distant IO points.

What options are there for this? Surely there is some module out there made just for this purpose?

I need to 4 DI and 3 DO. Analog is not a concern at the moment. Radio wont work reliably because it's down the side of a curving hillside.

Firejo · Dec 9, 2015

This product will give you the ability to use either DF1 or Ethernet/IP to read and write to and from I/O points. The remote units have 8 discrete inputs and 8 discrete outputs (along with some analog) and show up in the PLC as integers (N files). At 1500’ line of site shouldn’t be an issue but that can’t be guaranteed.
http://www.data-linc.com/cixfamily/cix6400.htm

Phil Buchanan · Dec 9, 2015

Would RIO Work? You would need a chassis and adapter on the remote end but you could maybe pickup what you need on eBay for a fair price.

Is this just a test install or permanent until you replace the PLC 5?

It seems like it would be just as cheap and easy to go ahead with the fiber though? Are you doing a large multi fiber ring?

I use this a lot http://www.panduit.com/heiler/SpecificationSheets/D-FBSP57--WW-ENG-DielectricCondFibCabl-W.pdf

It's crush resistant and requires no grounding and you can install the fiber ad the connectors yourself.

Black Box and a few others make lengths of fiber with pre terminated and tested ends. Could you possibly use something like that?

TheWaterboy · Dec 9, 2015

Firejo said:
... At 1500’ line of site shouldn’t be an issue but that can’t be guaranteed.
http://www.data-linc.com/cixfamily/cix6400.htm

Its about as far from line of sight as you can get, essentially on the other side of a hill,

TheWaterboy · Dec 9, 2015

PBuchanan said:
Would RIO Work? You would need a chassis and adapter on the remote end but you could maybe pickup what you need on eBay for a fair price.

Is this just a test install or permanent until you replace the PLC 5?

Not enough room on the far end for a PLC5 chassis. I could fit an ML1400 or an L18 in each end and that's kinda where I may wind up. The remaining problem is that the L18 doesn't support serial comms which I currently need for telemetry so it will probably be an ML1400. I'm hoping there is a better solution. RIO over Fiber to a Din mount I/O block... something like that.

Well as often happens it will probably be there much longer than I would like, but it is "temporary".

Phil Buchanan · Dec 9, 2015

At 1500 feet RIO would be fine on blue hose cable which is fairly cheap.

Could you fit a 4 slot SLC chassis on the remote end with a processor and a few I/O cards. A 5/04 can be picked up fairly cheap and will do DH+ plus has a serial port? The 5/20 will do DH+ built in.

TheWaterboy · Dec 9, 2015

PBuchanan said:
At 1500 feet RIO would be fine on blue hose cable which is fairly cheap.

Could you fit a 4 slot SLC chassis on the remote end with a processor and a few I/O cards. A 5/04 can be picked up fairly cheap and will do DH+ plus has a serial port? The 5/20 will do DH+ built in.

Hmmmm, Thats an idea. Would have to convince them to pull the blue hose with the fiber when they do it.... Not impossible.

Shoot, did I mention it will share a conduit with 100 amp 480v service.... (I knew I specified Fiber for SOME reason

)

Phil Buchanan · Dec 9, 2015

TheWaterboy said:
Shoot, did I mention it will share a conduit with 100 amp 480v service.... (I knew I specified Fiber for SOME reason )

Yea you kinda left that part out

I have used these guys a lot in the past http://www.phoenixdigitalcorp.com/pdf_directory/Rockwell.pdf

They have fiber modules that will fit in your PLC 5 chassis if you have or can open a slot and you could still go with the slc 4 slot chassis on the other end with fiber module, processor and 2 slots for I/O. You could even use a combo I/O module for your digital I/O and have a spare slot for analog if you need it.

Sounds like you plan to run fiber either way. I thought you were trying to avoid running fiber now for some reason but if it share a power conduit that's the only choice.

Ken Roach · Dec 9, 2015

While 1794-ASB FLEX IO adapters are discontinued from production, they are available on the aftermarket. Buy one for a spare !

The Weed Instrument RIO/Fiber converters (model 2C12 is for DH+/RIO) are probably the best choice for a small enclosure.

There are a handful of fiber-optic IO repeaters on the market, including Weed Instrument's MX series.

TheWaterboy · Dec 9, 2015

PBuchanan said:
I thought you were trying to avoid running fiber now for some reason but if it share a power conduit that's the only choice.

Oh no, I'm running fiber either way. When telemetry is upgraded to microwave (someday...) I will not have this problem as the fiber will just be lan traffic.
The problem I was facing now was that the PLC-5 doesn't have flex or point IO that I can hang off it and I was hoping for a magic box solution. But thats tough for this old stuff.

I ran across the phoenix stuff, I'll give them a closer look.

Ken Roach · Dec 9, 2015

Unless you've used up all of your RIO rack capacity on that PLC-5/20, you could definitely use FLEX I/O and the 1794-ASB.

Yes, those adapters are out of production but they were very popular and are widely available on the aftermarket.

TheWaterboy · Dec 9, 2015

Ken Roach said:
Unless you've used up all of your RIO rack capacity on that PLC-5/20, you could definitely use FLEX I/O and the 1794-ASB.

Yes, those adapters are out of production but they were very popular and are widely available on the aftermarket.

I am looking into it... Thanks for that.

TheWaterboy · Dec 9, 2015

Hey, how about using 2 ML1100's? I *think* I can talk to the PLC5 with DH+ on one channel and the two 1100's can talk over Ethernet (fiber)... Does this sound plausable? 1100's are cheap too. Not 100% certain that they can talk to the PLC5 over the DH+ channel, but I would think they could.

Ken Roach · Dec 9, 2015

The MicroLogix 1100 doesn't have an effective way to communicate with DH+ or RIO protocols. It has a serial port that can do DF1, DH485, and ASCII, and an Ethernet port that can do PCCC commands over EtherNet/IP.

I can think of a handful of exotic ways but they involve complex gateway devices.

If you didn't mind using the Channel 0 serial port and relying on MSG instructions instead of a proper IO scanning protocol, you could connect an RS-232/Fiber converter on both sides and use a MicroLogix (1000, 1200, 1100) on the far end.

TheWaterboy · Dec 9, 2015

The manual says its possible but maybe "possible" doesn't mean what I think it means...? This must be what you mean by exotic
<snippet from manual>
The example below shows how to send messages from a device on the DH+ network to a MicroLogix controller on the DH-485 network. This method uses an SLC 5/04 processor as the bridge connection.When using this method (as shown in the illustration below):

•PLC-5 devices can send read and write commands to MicroLogix™controllers.
•MicroLogix™ controllers can respond to MSG instructions received.
•The MicroLogix™ controllers can initiate MSG instructions to devices on the DH+ network.
•PC can send read and write commands to MicroLogix™ controllers.
•PC can do remote programming of MicroLogix™ controllers

Distant I/O over Fiber to PLC5/20 ?

TheWaterboy

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Firejo

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Phil Buchanan

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