Question about ABB ACS550

L0sts0ul said:

you mentioned you worked in pipe before. its a basic pipe extrusion system, pipe is extruded from the die/extruder, runs through vacuum tanks, and cooling tanks, through the hauloff and saw, out to a winder that spools over hand. Some of the problems we have are the larger pipe has a tendency to overload the drive that is in there now and the electric brakes on the motors either aren't strong enough/or don't work to stop the back spooling of the pipe off the winder. Some of the spools get very heavy, so much as 1-2 tonnes sometimes as the pipe is sometimes 6+" in diameter and sometimes walls 1+" thick. reels are usually 10' in diameter.


thanks

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Now we are getting somewhere. I am making the same assumptions as DickDV. If you really want accurate sensoreless torque control you want an ACS 800 which utilizes DTC (direct torque control). This is ABB's algorithim for modelling the motor and directly and accuately controlling the torque the motor will produce. ABB is regarded as the best in the business for doing this.

Note that the ACS550 is marketed as a general purpose drive and the 800 is a high performance drive. The 550 is a good drive for a lot of things but not really designed for what you want to do.

L0sts0ul said:

so, in the mean time I am stuck with the ACS550 that my boss has purchased, and it sounds to me like I am going to have to set it up as simply a VFD with a speed pot, and an on/off switch because this drive is the wrong drive for this application.

am I correct here?
John

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If I understand correctly then no, you want to set it up for torque control. I have cable winding take ups here that work that way.

Basically you set a speed limit in the drive that is higher then the line speed and then use a pot to set the torque. You can wire a pot and use that to adjust the speed limit but remember you are not controlling the speed because the drive will never reach that speed. The drive will then put out a constant amount of torque, when the line stops the take up will stop because it doesn't have enough torque to pull the product through the line.

It's ugly and very rudimentary because you are not really doing tension control as the product gets larger on the reel the tension changes. But for what you are doing it MIGHT work.

Also if there is a product break the motor will accelerate to the speed limit to try and reach it's torque setpoint. What kind of motor are you using? Does it have a blower or rely on the shaft fan for cooling? Motor selection on something like this is a whole other can of worms.

Hope this makes sense.

I just checked the Instruction Manual to see if you can control the Max Torque Limit with an Analog input while in the speed mode and you cannot. On the ACS800 you can. That would give you a cheap and dirty semi-solution but not available on the 550.

I think AllScott has given you about the best setup the drive has to offer. I believe I recall you saying that you have to duplicate this system seven times in your plant. If that is so, if you please, boss or no boss, buy an ACS800 for the remaining six. I assure you, once these are set up properly, your boss will find the money to replace the 550!

I think that what you have just describes scott is exactly what my boss wants to do. set the speed, let the pipe build up, and adjust the torque as required through the pot.

so, if this is the way that it is going to be setup, when I am looking at the terminal blocks, and the manual, what macro would I want to use for this setup?
will I need the torque/speed regulation switch?
will the trimpot be installed on AI1 or, elsewhere? ( AI 1 seems most logical)
and on the terminal strip it lists of a "constant speed" point. what is this used for?

thanks.

Pick the Torque Control Macro. This is actually a macro with dual mode, no signal on DI3 gives you speed control, a signal on DI3 gives you torque control.

Unfortunately, all you can really use here is torque control so you will jumper from terminal 10 (+24V) to terminal 15 (DI3). If there are no safeties or run inhibit signals on the machine, then also jumper from terminal 10 to terminal 18 (DI6). That terminal needs a constant voltage to permit it to run in any mode. There will be no connection to terminal 14 (Forward/Reverse),terminal 16 (Constant Speed), or terminal 17 (Accel/Decel Ramp Pair Selection).

It sounds like you want an operator pot to control torque level. The macro defaults to a 4-20ma signal on AI2 which is not what you want. Wire a 5k ohm pot to AI1 as shown for a speed pot and then go into the drive software to make the following changes.

Group 11 Parameter 06 change from AI2 to AI1.
Group 11 Parameter 07 set this for the percent of motor torque that you want when the pot is turned down to minimum. The default is zero but you will probably want more than that to prevent rollback.
Group 11 Parameter 08 set this for the percent of motor torque that you want when the pot is turned up to max. 100% would be the upper limit or you would be selecting continuous overload torque on the motor which would not be good.
Group 20 Parameter 02 set to maximum motor speed when free running
Group 20 Parameter 08 set to hertz that corresponds to the maximum motor speed in Parameter 02.
Group 24 Parameter 01 and 02 set limits on how fast the torque level can be changed by the pot. Default is almost instantaneous tracking with the pot position. If you want a more gradual change in torque levels, set these for longer times.

Be sure to set all required parameters in Group 99 especially the macro selection, the control mode of Vector-Torque, and the motor nameplate data. And do the motor ID Run with the motor disconnected from the machine.

thanks a lot dickdv,

this is EXACTLY the information I was looking for, I Was doing ok on the setup, but as far as all the parameter changes, I had no idea.

thanks again, and when I get back from my days off, I will set this up, and giver a shot.

Hey guys,

I have a new question regarding this drive, and I appreciate all your input again.

I need to hook up the brake to work as follows on my winder application that I have listed above. However the way my boss describes it, the actual unit, and the way I understand it as per the ACS550 manual and the way I want it to work, they don't seem to match up.

I basically only need the brake (as far as I understand it) to run off a NC contact on a 240v (the voltage of the brake itself) to supply power to the holding coil on the spring loaded brake when the drive is active but if the drive were to fail, or overload I would need it to open the coil to close the brake on the shaft, and stop the motor from rotating backwards hence not losing an entire would reel.

Does this drive do this for my application or does it need the brake setup with parameters to allow the drive to control the brake as part of the torque macro I am using?

OR, could I just set it up the way I am talking about and then have it work as it has before?

Please advise me lol

thanks again for the help

L0sts0ul said:

I basically only need the brake (as far as I understand it) to run off a NC contact on a 240v (the voltage of the brake itself)

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I think you have it reversed you need the NO contact. You did mention that it is a spring set brake.

L0sts0ul said:

to supply power to the holding coil on the spring loaded brake when the drive is active but if the drive were to fail, or overload I would need it to open the coil to close the brake on the shaft, and stop the motor from rotating backwards hence not losing an entire would reel.

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If I'm understanding you correctly, you are not needing a drive fault indication but a drive running indication. I would use a interposing relay between the drive outputs and the brake.

.

Thanks a lot.. and yes you are right, I got my contacts reversed it does have to be NO.

Appreciate your help.

It sounds to me from the description that the only time the brake is to apply is when the drive has faulted. It that is the case, use the fault relay instead. Remember that the factory default is for the relay to be picked up when the drive is ok, and it drops down when a fault occurs.

If you want the brake to engage each time the drive stops, milldrone's arrangement above is right on.

Just one possible embellishment---ABB's output relays have pick up and release time delays available so you may find those useful as you tweak the way the brake works.

That sounds good. I will play with the relay time delays, and see what works best. Do they act the same as a PLC TDOE or TDOD would work?

Thanks

No. Just look in Parameter Group 14. It's all in there.

Abb vfd acs550 speed control

Hi all

I am very new to this forum, i am facing a problem in speed controlling of the motor. I am using 10k pot for speed controlling, the speed up to 20hz is responding normal but as i go up.. it responding too fast and reaching 50hz(India) with a very small movement in pot(10k). i have changed pot twice.

please suggest the solution. VFD is newly installed in place of ACS800.

Thanks

Ricky

Is your pot Linear or Logarithmic ?
It most likely should be Linear, most pots you can buy for radios' etc are Logarithmic.

Alan.

L0sts0ul said:

thank you very much. I agree with you and your assessment. The problem I have is that you are right the operators will have to play with the pots on their own to become comfotable with the the unit and how they have to adjust it with the changing pipe diameter and so on. And I also want to share this service - https://www.aresearchguide.com/essay-writing-service-reviews.html with you and your friends. There you could find the best essay writing service reviews.

basically I would attach a 10k pot to the AI1 input and the "torque" pot to the AI2 input? and then where would I get my torque and speed references from as this motor and gear box do not have tachs attached to them or CTs of any kind.

thanks again

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I agree with your point of view.