Device Net with AB 50/4 and ABB Drive

BobB · Jan 6, 2005

There are other drives around that are tested and known to work properly on Device Net. Can you use something else?

Otherwise get on to your ABB distributor or ABB themselves and seek assurances, in writing, that the drives/EDS files have been properly tested by ODVA and some guarantees as to their performance. If they get nervous and run the other way hammer them hard and ask them what they are afraid of. Give them a bloody hard time and you may find you get some answers when they are on the back foot.

I spent 25 years in sales and management and there is nothing more disconcerting than a customer really giving you a hard time over possible problems with equipment, particularly if you KNOW there is a problem and the company is ignoring it or trying to cover up.

Now that I work for myself doing design, control systems, software etc, I can assure you I am relentless when asking questions. Reps are quite often reluctant to call and usually finish up squirming something fierce. I quite enjoy it and find out really fast how little reps know about the products they sell and what the technical back up is like in their company.

Persue the issue and you may be surprised what you find out.

Yes, I am a hard old ******* but could not care less. I have a job to do and money to be made (or lost) and can do without faulty product causing me dramas.

I am sure you are in the same boat.

504bloke · Jan 6, 2005

BobB said:
There are other drives around that are tested and known to work properly on Device Net. Can you use something else?

Otherwise get on to your ABB distributor or ABB themselves and seek assurances, in writing, that the drives/EDS files have been properly tested by ODVA and some guarantees as to their performance. If they get nervous and run the other way hammer them hard and ask them what they are afraid of. Give them a bloody hard time and you may find you get some answers when they are on the back foot.

I spent 25 years in sales and management and there is nothing more disconcerting than a customer really giving you a hard time over possible problems with equipment, particularly if you KNOW there is a problem and the company is ignoring it or trying to cover up.

Now that I work for myself doing design, control systems, software etc, I can assure you I am relentless when asking questions. Reps are quite often reluctant to call and usually finish up squirming something fierce. I quite enjoy it and find out really fast how little reps know about the products they sell and what the technical back up is like in their company.

Persue the issue and you may be surprised what you find out.

Yes, I am a hard old ******* but could not care less. I have a job to do and money to be made (or lost) and can do without faulty product causing me dramas.

I am sure you are in the same boat.

Yep, the same boat!

Thanks for your wisdom

The drive is speced by the customer

I normally use Eurotherm (Now SSD Drives) as they are local to me.

I will be meeting with the coms chap at abb in a few weeks and apart from getting summin in writing im gonna ask for a loan drive with the devicenet card in it so i can have a play!

Alan Case · Jan 6, 2005

Hi, I would appreciate a followup on how you do with ABB on this endeavour. Regards Alan

Bitmore · Jan 6, 2005

Rats! banghead
I did it again... mass confusion here

the GM6 is a Seimans interface, it was still junk!

504bloke · Jan 6, 2005

Alan Case said:
Hi, I would appreciate a followup on how you do with ABB on this endeavour. Regards Alan

Will Do

504bloke · Jan 7, 2005

Back Again!

Abb have just emailed me the EDS File i asked for, i asked for both but they seemed a little confused! Anyways heres the eds file along with a help note to resolve an rsnetworkx conflict!

I Cant paste the eds file in as its too big so hopefully youll see it attached as a winrar file.

Do you guys reckon this is the smaller EDS file or the larger one i will need ?

Gerry · Jan 7, 2005

   Default     = 0x0001;                                    $ Bit 0:    Poll

                                                             $ Bit 1:    Strobe

                                                             $ Bit 2:    Change of state

                                                             $ Bit 3:    Cyclic

                                                             $ Bit 4-15: Reserved



    PollInfo    = 0x0001,                                    $ Poll ( Bitdef. see Default )

                  1,                                         $ Default Input

                  1;                                         $ Default Output



    Input1      = 12,                                        $ Size in Bytes

                  0,                                         $ All bits significant

                  0x0007,                                    $ Poll or Strobe or COS connection

                  "Dataset2/4",                            $ Name string

                  6,                                         $ path size

                  "20 04 24 02 30 03",                     $ adress (class,instance,attribute)

                  "Data read from drive";                  $ Help string



    Output1     = 12,                                        $ Size in Bytes

                  0,                                         $ All bits significant

                  0x0007,                                    $ Poll or Strobe or COS connection

                  "Dataset1/3",                            $ Name string

                  6,                                         $ path size

                  "20 04 24 01 30 03",                     $ address (class,instance,attribute)

                  "Data write to drive";                   $ Help string

This is the default setup - 12 bytes in and 12 bytes out in polled mode. You'll need to consult a manual to find out what the particular 'datasets' contain.

Alan Case · Jan 7, 2005

Hi, This is the full EDS for this drive. I was able to register the EDS with Rockwells RSNetworx and configure a system with one drive.
I configured an AB 1747 scanner and it automatically mapped 12 words of input data and 12 words of output data. All OK so far. I have the PDF of the devicenet adaptor from ABB and it it not real clear on how it all works. I think I can see how the 12 words are configured via the data sets for status (assembly 108) but I cannot see where there are any configurable words for control assembly 104.
I may be wrong but it looks like you can only do basic stop/start, speed control and read back 12 bytes via the IO structure. I hope I am wrong and someone with more experience than me, ie Ken will be able to correct this statement.
At the end of the day with ABB the only way to truely prove if it works is to hook it up and try to read and write parameters over the network.
Regards Alan

rsdoran · Jan 7, 2005

The polled 12 bytes sounds just like the Toshiba and Horner plc setup I did last year. The inputs were basically start, stop etc and output info was fairly simple stuff like frequency. I looked at the EDS file again and it was just 8 bytes each for input and output. Dont expect to obtain alot of info with this.

504bloke · Jan 7, 2005

Alan Case said:
I hope I am wrong and someone with more experience than me, ie Ken will be able to correct this statement.

Thanks Alan

Ken, you out there?

Comments would be greatly appreciated

504bloke · Jan 8, 2005

Some more questions

Alan Case said:
I may be wrong but it looks like you can only do basic stop/start, speed control and read back 12 bytes via the IO structure. I hope I am wrong and someone with more experience than me, ie Ken will be able to correct this statement.

Hopeing as Alan said Ken or someone else may help out here !

Basic Start Stop is not what i am looking for!

From the ABB Drive i will specifically need to

START
STOP
Read faults (Even if this is just Fault/ NO Fault)
Drive Running
Drive Stationary

More Specifically

Read SPEED in rpm or whatever
Give the drive a setpoint
Reset The drive from fault conditions
Read Armature Current
Read Field Current (Although not really needed)

All hopefully done simply over the devicenet with mapped io from the scanner...............

Although i am starting to believe (yes i have been told by abb its not a problem) that this is a BIG Problem...........

I read from above that it is probably possible to use explicit messaging to do most things but i like simplicity!

I did a job may years ago when Flex IO first came out in the UK and was sold this by an AB Sales rep, to cut a long story short the thermocouple modules needed Block Transfers on a 504 plc, none of the manuals documented this but the did show the BTR/BTW command ! Which of course wasnt in the 504 firmware then! I spent a week in lost time on this problem and so far am having major doubts over the ABB devicenet problem i am faced with!

BobB · Jan 9, 2005

Honestly, explicit messaging is not that difficult. The main thing is you have to get the numbers right, scanner address, device address, class, instance etc. These things are normally detailed in the device manual, except numbers you set your self of course.

Get hold of a drive, PLC, scanner, software and have a fiddle. If the sales agents are any good, they will help you. AB will also help with any difficulties you have. Give it a go. Only way to learn.

Look at it this way, a Device Net scanner is only good for 300 words, I believe. Sooner or later explicit messaging will become an issue. Tackle it now and in the future it will not be a problem for you. Another skill to put on the old resume.

rsdoran · Jan 9, 2005

More Specifically

Read SPEED in rpm or whatever
Give the drive a setpoint
Reset The drive from fault conditions
Read Armature Current
Read Field Current (Although not really needed)

If that is all you want then it shouldnt be a problem. You will definitely be able to start, stop and jog etc.

Since this is DC the speed reference should be available.
Set speed should be
Arm current should be
Field current should be
Reset yes

Here is the manual for the NDNA-02: http://www.abb-drives.com/StdDrives.../Documentation/files/products/NDNA-02_3-0.pdf

For what you want it has the capability, Look in Chapter 5.
This shows the Basic Speed Assembly which offers the speed part.

I dont think you will have a problem once you get involved in it.

504bloke · Jan 16, 2005

Hi all

An update so far

To cut a long story short i am now quoting for Eurtherm 590+ and 690 Drives with devicenet cards fitted

I am very pleased as i deal with Eurotherm (Now SSD) a lot and have downloaded the eds files, spoke to tech support and configured my network with RSNetworx for devicenet, it all seems to be OK, just need to give it a try!

Will be getting a free issue small drive to play with and configure and run on an sdn in the next few weeks as well which will make life easier as site time is minimal!

Ill keep you posted as to how i get on etc

One Question is that i can get away without doing M files and Block Transfers but for future reference has anyone used the 5/04 with the new BTR/BTW command on an SDN card ? If so is it as easy as it looks ? ie just one command (BTR or W) ? as i have never used these commands and always done it the hard way!!

Thanks for all your help, advice and support..

Cheers

Dave

GregPLC · May 23, 2005

Leaping

I'm giving this a try.....I'm using 5 ACS-550 drives and an SDN card.....I've used quite a few of the 550's, but never over DeviceNet. I'll let you know how it goes. I read this post after I've spec'd the components.....If it doesn't work, I can still go hardwire control.

I'm on hold right now with ABB, their knowledge of the EDS files is very dissapointing.

Greg

Device Net with AB 50/4 and ABB Drive

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