Transfer PLC program to end-user

True story: The city of Bakersfield, California fought w/ a company trying to get the plc code for their mini Vegas style fountain that spelled out stuff in water and failed. (as many have mentioned, they should have specified that in the purchase order)

I just called the guy and asked for it. Amazing what you can get if you ask nicely to the right person in the right way.

I was going to modify it to spell "Would you marry me?" if the right women ever came along.

mk42 said:

How the USA actually works: IT DOESN'T, except that somehow it does anyway! We're just a giant random number generator, accidentally succeeding en mass. For every thousand people who get bad rolls, someone accidentally turns out amazingly successful and pulls the average waaay up. No one knows what they're doing, even if they think they do.

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Must be a northern thing...

However, there is some truth to that with the snowflakes that are being raised right now.

We promote salesman.
That Japanese promotes Engineers.
I'm sure that couldn't have anything to do w/ it.

Phrog30 said:

Must be a northern thing...

However, there is some truth to that with the snowflakes that are being raised right now.

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I'm not quite sure what you're saying here?

I think he is referring to the precious little snowflakes that will be permanently damaged if they are exposed to [name anything here you, your parents, and your grandparents had to experience or put up with here]

If my neighbors precious little snowflake ever has to sing a Christmas carol in school or learn about any Jewish tradition she will meltdown with permanent emotional scarring because of it.

And I was forced to sing Hava Nagila in the 60's and go to museums to see how things used to be. Totally scarred and injured me, obviously.

Manglemender said:

how would it be if you bought a Ford car then decided to copy it and then sell the copies? Do you think Ford would be OK with that?

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Last I bought a car, I didn't approach them asking for a complete service with a set of drawings and software to be delivered with the car, so I really don't know.


When it comes to manufacturing equipment, that along with ownership of what is delivered (i.e. software and documentation) is the first requirement for them to even be considered, so slightly different proposal.

In this case however, it would be a better analogy to approach Ford with a 1960 Mustang (were they made then??) and ask them to upgrade the electrics and put a digital dashboard, but give me the engineering information on what would be a one of a kind.

I_Automation said:

I think he is referring to the precious little snowflakes that will be permanently damaged if they are exposed to [name anything here you, your parents, and your grandparents had to experience or put up with here]

If my neighbors precious little snowflake ever has to sing a Christmas carol in school or learn about any Jewish tradition she will meltdown with permanent emotional scarring because of it.

And I was forced to sing Hava Nagila in the 60's and go to museums to see how things used to be. Totally scarred and injured me, obviously.

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I don't see what insulting people has anything to do with what I was talking about.

mk42 said:

I don't see what insulting people has anything to do with what I was talking about.

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Are you serious?? Isn't that what you did in your post?

mk42 said:

I don't see what insulting people has anything to do with what I was talking about.

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How is it an insult if my neighbor actually went to her daughters school and basically threatened them with legal action if her daughter was exposed to anything Christmas or non-Christian teachings? How could hiding culture from her daughter possibly be good in any way?

Phrog30 said:

Are you serious?? Isn't that what you did in your post?

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Ok, fair enough I guess. After re-reading what I wrote, I guess that came off harsher than I intended. My bad.

Thanks all for the valuable insight. I think this is one of those points where people just fundamentally disagree.



We normally do not include it in the contract.

When a customer requests the program for back-up purposes, we usually comply.


Ended up using MS OneDrive. I can specify a single receiver, who will receive a code to download. I got notification after download, and deleted the files.

There is not much you can do they already have a copy of the program all they all they have to do is upload it from the processor unless you password protected it
My concern has always been if they have somebody come in a make modifications and have problems then want me to come back and fix it for free.
i like burning it to a CD I also include all hardware manuals and any instruction sheets i feed may be needed. And leave with a responsible person on site not just leave it in the panel. Have them sign a receipt for the CD
i have done it this way many times but after a few years they always seem to forget where their copy of the CD is but they can't say thy never received it.

if there is ever a question if the program was modified then just compare the copy on the CD with current program in processor.

GaryS said:

i like burning it to a CD I also include all hardware manuals and any instruction sheets i feed may be needed. And leave with a responsible person on site not just leave it in the panel.

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I think this is probably where you're going wrong... leaving it in the panel has a much higher chance that it will be kept there than someone tossing it because it's on this desk of the guy that just retired. Someone responsible, isn't necessarily good at storing documentation.

Early on I tried leaving the CD in the panel. In a short time they always seem to disappear and of course nobody knows what happened to them.
Over the years I have found that the best way is on the final check off day, is to sit down with the plant supervisor for that machine, verify the operations meets or exceeds they expectations, address any problems they may have at that time, insure they understand the operation. When all is well and as excepted, I present them with the completed CD if they require paper copies of the drawings or any other documents I present them to them at that time as well.
Yes I know that in a few years they too may not be able to find them either but they always remember that handed them over to them. Once they are handed over it becomes their responsibility.
I keep an archived copy of everything in a safe location ( now it a cloud drive )
I also put a label on the inside of the panel with the Program name and completed or updated Date. And project Name or Job number if applicable. That way if I get called back in even years later I can just look at the label and know what program should be in the processor. Then first thing I do on a return is upload the program from the processor and compare it from my original if they are not the same it gives me a good place to start looking for problems. You would be surprised the number of time the program is modified but nobody knows anything about it.
If there is a question I just show management the compare between the program on the original CD and what was just uploaded.
Now that CD’s are going obsolete I am not sure what I am going to do going forward
Does anybody know of a one write only flash drive

GaryS said:

Does anybody know of a one write only flash drive

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I have not! That is a very interesting idea. I'm curious now.