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Old January 31st, 2012, 12:42 AM   #1
daleroe
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Toshiba EX100 Programming Access Help

Hello,
I am working on a Toshiba EX100 that I need to extract the ladder logic. I'm at the end of my rope. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
Sincerely
Dale

Here are the details:
I'll be as detailed as I can and list part numbers for anyone else who finds themselves in my shoes.

The CPU is a PU11A (EX10-MPU11A).

I am unable to locate a programmer. I have searched for the following:
GP110 (EX25UGP-110)
GP110AP1 (EX25UG-110-AP1)
HP100 (EX25UHP-100)
MP100 (EX25UMP-100)

I have also tried unsuccessfully to locate a current loop converter (EX25GP232A-TIC2) or a schematic to build one.

Since the PU11A doesn't have the computer link RS-485 built in, I added a CL11 (EX10-MCL11) computer link module in the rack in hopes to access the ladder logic via the RS-485 on it.

I have a WIN98 laptop with a serial port (RS-232). I have an Advantech ADAM-4520 isolated RS-232 to RS-422/485 converter.

I powered the converter with 24vdc from the PS51 (EX10-MPS51) power supply module. I have tried every configuration imaginable to interface with the EX100 and have been unsuccessful using EXPDD250-V3. I also tried the QBasic Computer Link Test 0 listed in the appendix of the Computer Link-Function EX100 Users Manual to no avail.

Last edited by daleroe; January 31st, 2012 at 01:14 AM. Reason: Title Changed
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Old January 31st, 2012, 12:04 PM   #2
jrwb4gbm
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Just in case you dont have this manual, here is a link, Rt. Click-->SaveAs:
http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/tag_...Manual_520.pdf

See Page 38,39, and 43.

Maybe this will help.

Last edited by jrwb4gbm; January 31st, 2012 at 12:12 PM.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 02:10 PM   #3
daleroe
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Smile

Thank you, I am reviewing the specific pages you listed in greater detail. I'm in the process of loading all the info I have to the web. While double checking my setup I will document it more thoroughly and post the specifics. I am also attempting to extract and compile the applicable information from all of the manuals into one document for ease of review. I will post a link to the pictures of the Computer Link Module when the upload finishes. Thanks again.
dale
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Old January 31st, 2012, 02:27 PM   #4
daleroe
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Here are some photos and documentation for Computer Link Module.

EX100 RACK JPG

EX10-MCL11 JPG

EX10-MCL11 PDF
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Old January 31st, 2012, 09:13 PM   #5
jrwb4gbm
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I've never tried to program or communicate thru the Computer Link Module since I have the programming cable (EX25GP232A-TIC). I believe an old 4-wire RS232 to RS422/RS485 converter like Toshiba originally sold might be easier to work with but maybe what you have will work just as well. I've been reading some of the manuals in the links you provided. I really dont have any solid info to help, just some things to try. The Adam RS232 to RS422/RS485 converter looks like the first place to start trying things out. I would configure it to use 4-wires and set the dip switches to RS422. For the cable connection, notice that the TXA(+) wire on one end of the cable go to the RXA(+) wire on the other end of the cable, and so forth. The A is the + and the B is the -.
One more thing, make sure the station # on the CL-11 module matches the setting under F8 in the PDD software, just set them both to zero (0).
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Old February 1st, 2012, 01:39 AM   #6
daleroe
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Yeah, I agree. From what I've read I thought the ADAM-4520 adapter would work. I've tried all variations that are available with the connections and dip switches between the adapter and the Computer Link. I'm wondering if the Toshiba TCNV485-232C adapter is better suited. I found one on the net for $70 although I don't need another adapter unless it will work.

I didn't use the terminating resistors, since all the RS-485 literature I read said that is wasn't needed for short distances and low speed transmission. Additionally, I didn't have them on hand to try out, are they required?

One of the guys I talked with suggested there might be a jumper or switch in the program to allow communication between the computer link module and the PLC. I can see that the enhanced cpu (EX10-MPU12A) has a physical switch so perhaps there maybe something in the ladder logic to enable the CL11 like he mentioned although I haven't found any reference to anything yet.

PS I couldn't edit my previous post with the photo of the rack, so I'll the rack parts list here

EX10-MPS51
EX10-MPU11A
EX10-MPI21
EX10-MPI21
EX10-MCL11 (I added this module to utilize the RS-485)
open slot
EX10-MAO32
EX10-MDI31
EX10-MRO61

Last edited by daleroe; February 1st, 2012 at 01:43 AM. Reason: Added component list.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 06:15 PM   #7
jrwb4gbm
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I believe that the two-wire setup you show in the picture is ok but please re-check that the leads on the Adam data + terminal is going to the CL-11 TXA and RXA and that the data - terminal is on the TXB and RXB of the CL-11. I really cant tell for sure from the picture, but it looks opposite from that.
You asked a question about the terminating resistors. I think you should put one on one end across the RXA to RXB wires. Any value from 180 to 220 ohms should be ok. Maybe you can find them locally at a ratshack store.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 09:42 PM   #8
daleroe
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I have tried the TXA&RXA to Data+ with TXB&RXB to Data- and vice versa at 9600 baud which is what the CL11 is set at. I've also tried the RS-422 settings A to B with T to R and also swapping A to A with B to B at 9600, RS-422, and RTS. I don't know what else to try except adding the termination resistors. The last ditch effort might have to be trying the newer Toshiba adapter.

Some of the RS-485 literature mentions biasing the circuit when termination is used, is it possible that is already done internally and now the resistors are needed? The info lists a 120ohm 1/2watt I'll start there. I hope I can get them at the shack although they don't carry much of that stuff any more.

I guess it might be worth a try setting everything to the lowest baud rate and extend the timeout timer to see if I can get any kind of communication. If I can get something to work, I can tweak it to improve.

I printed off all information I have that is relevant and hope to sit down with it this evening and read through it all, highlight what is important to see if I missed something along the way then double check all my setup and play with the settings some more.

There is also the possibility that the CL11 or the adapter is not functioning correctly since I did buy them used.

I've talked with Toshiba who wasn't much help besides referring me to a local vendor who may have some equipment to work on this old stuff. I called them and the guy I talked with didn't really know what was needed so I emailed him the part numbers etc a few days ago.

I've also talked with Karl at xtronics.com he gave me some info but was no help since he has nothing to interface with the EX100 any more.

Based on those conversations and their lack of memory or knowledge of the CL11 I wonder if it got used much since everything could be done via the program port. I wonder if anyone here on the forum ever programmed through the computer link or computer link module.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 12:18 AM   #9
jrwb4gbm
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There is a real possibility that the CPU Module wont have the right firmware version to even work with the Link Module. I think I read in one of the manuals that it needed to be 2.0 or later in the CPU. I've read so many of the manuals, I don't remember which one i was or if I might be confusing myself. In any event, if you can, find the version number on the CPU.
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Old February 2nd, 2012, 01:37 AM   #10
daleroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrwb4gbm View Post
There is a real possibility that the CPU Module wont have the right firmware version to even work with the Link Module. I think I read in one of the manuals that it needed to be 2.0 or later in the CPU. I've read so many of the manuals, I don't remember which one i was or if I might be confusing myself. In any event, if you can, find the version number on the CPU.
Yes, I read that also. It is on the second page of the CL11 manual section 7, item #1, "EX100 CPU version 2.1 is required". I will pull the CPU and see if there is any marking on it, however I suspect the only way to find out is to access the memory via the programming port which brings me back to where this whole thing began.

I contacted Jay at Toshiba Industrial who pointed me towards a long time Toshiba dealer in my area, Motors and Controls Corp. I spoke with Phil and explained my situation, hopefully he may be able to help me, although it has been several days now already and I haven't heard back.

I'm not sure where to go from here, I may have reached the end of the road.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 12:01 PM   #11
jrwb4gbm
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I believe connection via the CL-11 Computer Link Module should be abandoned at this point. The next approach would be to try to figure out how to connect to the programmer port on the CPU module. Here is a link that has cable connections for a HMI to PLC. There is a couple of cables listed under the Toshiba heading. See file CA67.zip and CA88.zip. The PLC end in the diagrams show some of the pinouts for the programmer port.
Link:
http://www.niplex.com.au/OperatorPan...iop/cables.htm

I had a similar issue many years ago trying to connect to an AB SLC150. I used a Short Haul Black Box ME800A, (not sure of the exact number), to get from RS232 2-wire to RS422 4-wire like this one in the link below.
Link:
http://www.blackbox.com/Store/Detail...ME800A%C4%82R3
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 03:32 PM   #12
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You are going way back now, I haven't touched an Ex in well over a decade. If you have a cable you should be able to go online with the EXPDD250 software, Dos based mind you, but depending on what you need to do you may require a key. Somewhere in my old collection I have everything required, hardware and software, as I used to maintain several of these but we are a long ways apart so it won't help you much right now.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 08:34 PM   #13
jrwb4gbm
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Just an update on my last post. I found this product that seems a little bit simpler to use than the ADAM 4520 or the BlackBox ME800A I mentioned in post #11.
Link to product page:
http://www.bb-elec.com/product_family.asp?familyid=20
Link to schematic that explains the polarity issues:
http://www.bb-elec.com/bb-elec/literature/232cl9r.pdf
Link to more info regarding polarity issues:
http://www.bb-elec.com/tech_articles...ir_signals.asp
Link to Application notes explaining how Current Loop works:
http://www.bb-elec.com/bb-elec/liter...h/curentlp.pdf

Last edited by jrwb4gbm; February 3rd, 2012 at 09:30 PM.
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Old February 4th, 2012, 02:24 PM   #14
daleroe
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It would seem that the computer link port on the EX100 is a passive current loop which means it needs 5v to operate. I am basing my assumption on the instructions and schematic located on page 4 of the EXPPD250_Manual_520 and the passive circuit schematic on page 2 of the B&B current loop adapter info. (A/B, R/T and not needing 5v since its port powered) I'm not 100% on this because the naming convention of A and B is not standardized, so different manufacturers alternate the usage. From what I can find it looks like Toshiba is backwards from what B&B uses. What do you think? The question remains what is the programming port since that is now my target? I could make the assumption it is the same and I might be right. Do I dare take the chance? With out the ladder logic I'm dead in the water for an upgrade or even replacing the legacy EX100. I'm not comfortable imputing 5v to the programming port.


PS I found some information how to verify if the PLC is active or passive. I can simply check for voltage across the output or input pairs.

Last edited by daleroe; February 4th, 2012 at 02:32 PM. Reason: PS Additional Information
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Old February 4th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #15
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Snip....

Quote:
The question remains what is the programming port since that is now my target?
The programming port is located on the CPU Module PU11A (EX10-MPU11A), not on the EX10-MCL11 module.
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