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Old July 22nd, 2012, 04:10 PM   #1
irondesk40
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Red Lion HMI programming

could someone take a look at the attached pdf file and explain what i may be doing wrong. I recieved a file from tech support to show a example of how to change the screens on the HMI based on the value that is present in a Register in a allen bradley plc. The file from tech support showed a reference for 4 page changes. I tried to go in and edit it by copying the last reference for changing to page 4 and copying it and then editing to show a page reference for page 5.
As can be seen from the attached pdf file a red question mark appeared. Could someone explain this? Also, is there any kind of file or docuement that explains how you would actually enter programming text and the correct format. I have searched the manual and the web and not had much luck.
Thanks
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File Type: pdf Test.pdf (126.5 KB, 175 views)
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 04:24 PM   #2
kolyur
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The red question mark means the program will not compile. If you Translate the program (Ctrl-T) it will usually tell you where the error is. In your case, it's probably due to misspelling a page name or variable, or a syntax mistake (most common is omitting semicolons at the ends of lines). I don't see any blatant errors in your screenshot, but I also can't see the part of the program you added.

Last edited by kolyur; July 22nd, 2012 at 04:26 PM.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 04:30 PM   #3
irondesk40
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i think i may have figured out what I had to change. I had to create the extra page that I was trying to add, which was page 5. Then I had to go back to the programming and highlight and delete the word WAS
Then I selected to translate it came back and said no prgramming errors found.

very confused on the programming of this HMI. I can not find on the red lion or the Control technique web site any reference material on how to properly create programs. I would think with all of the positive comments about this line of HMI that there would be some kind of reference material.
The actual display that i will be having to use on this project is a Control technique that is actuall a red lion display but has the correct drivers in it to be able to communicate to the Unidrive drives.

At the moment it appears I will be stuck using this HMI since my boss was convinced by a saleman that we should use the Unidrive drives and servo on a project, but did not know that there was not very good reference material, at least I have not been able to locate it. Hopefully in the next few weeks I will feel better about Red Lion HMI units, but at this moment due to the frustration with the manual and trying to get answers not so sure I will use it again in the future.
Just to change screens that you want to display from a plc appears to require that you write programs in the HMI using a form of C+ programming.
I have used the allen bradley, omron, maples,automation direct line of hmi units over the last 30 years and never been this frustrated with any of them.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 04:40 PM   #4
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thanks. Would you happen to have any type of document or reference material that would explain how to write a program and the correct way to enter it? It has taken several days of emails from tech suport just to figure out how to change the screen being displayed based on the plc program. On some of our equipment we have omron and allen bradley units and some of them have over a hundred screens that will display information based on a condition in the equipment. In those units it is as simple of just placing a number to represent the scren you want to display in a register in the plc and then in the HMI choose a screen control tag and reference the same tag register in the plc. You do not have to write programs in the HMI unit. I just find it hard to understand why red lion would create a hmi unit and you can not change the screen being diplayed based on a condition that may be in the machine without having to know how to properly enter a program in the HMI unit. I could work around that if red lion had a reference manual or something that explained how to enter the program and correct format etc.... I understand that part of my frustration at the moment is not being very familiar with the unit, but after a couple of days of trying to work with it, it is still fruatrating. Just a couple of weeks ago we had a machine we inherited that had a maples display. Had never used the Maples but in a mater of a couple of days was able to download the manual and make a call to tech support and create the necessary screens in the HMI and display the desired screen based on conditions in the machine such as error pages, production screens, menu screens etc.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 04:45 PM   #5
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i am going to attach the original fil that I recieved and modified and added a couple of pages.
it is a file created with the CT configurator software and not sure you can open it with the red lion software even though it is a red lion HMI with the control technique drivers.
I changed the file to be a .txt file in order to attach it.
the original file is .ctv file that was created using the ct configurator software.
If you can open it just downloaded and rename the file with the .ctv extension.
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File Type: txt MeTest.txt (13.1 KB, 103 views)
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 06:23 PM   #6
DamianInRochester
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Hi Irondesk,

To open the .ctv file in Crimson 2.0 just change the extenstion to instead .cd2.

The omission of a screen change variable is glaring. I am really suprised they have not addressed this after so many years. However, there are many other things that it does do well, and the ability to write programs can often set it apart in terms of capability.

I don't know if you have used Crimson 3.0, but it is a decent improvement over Crimson 2.0. I find the user interface more coherent. Crimson in general does take some getting used to. It is often unintuitive, but once you get past that, it is pretty slick. They do really need to re-think their help/documentation philoshophy though. Just invoking the PDF of the manual everytime you hit help is a cop out. I have complained about this in the past, and their answer was simply that we have always done it this way and probably always will.

Regarding the programming, have you tried the tutorials?
http://www.redlion.net/Support/Virtu...entations.html


I also like very much the UnidriveSP you reference above. CTSoft is the best drive setup software I have ever come across.

There is nothing special about the driver to talk to the CT drives. It is just a simple Modbus RTU driver is a CT wrapper.

I have never used the email support at red lion, but their phone support is pretty responsive. If you are really getting frustrated I would recommend getting on the phone instead.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 08:33 PM   #7
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Thanks
Have to admit, frustrated at the moment, just can not believe that a hmi manufacturer does not have better docuementation. I know i have read how everyone likes it, and i am sure i will but i have gotten a project that i had designed using yaskawa drives and servo and while working on another project in El salvador a salesman came in and told my boss it was very simple could be done in a matter of minutes, so you guessed it, all unidirve and control techniquie hmi ordered and i have couple of weeks to redesign the whole thing used these items.
I have posted on here a couple of times but not got many replys, so i am assuming everyone else is a confused or frustrated as i am.
Just to change the screen being displayed by the conditions that may be going on with the machine it appears you have to able to program with something like C+. I have gotten some great info from the redlion folks who use this site that is very great info and will be helpful and hopefully get me over this hill, but can not believe that if you have to create programs to perform certain functions that redlion does not have a great reference manual for it. I do have some friends who have used redlion, but due to those kind of things they went back to nothing but allen bradley. With the things we are getting into now as far as projects i really like the fact that the control technique version of the redlion can be ordered with the preconfigured drives to communicate to the drive, but with Yaskawa that was never really a issue. Thanks for any reply or input.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 08:37 PM   #8
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i have downloaded the redlion software as well since there does seem to be more info on the redlion sight than on Emerson site. I did download a sample crimson trace file but was unable to open it with the control technique software even after i changed the extension. Have not tried to download a crisom 3 file and change the extension to see if i can open it with the control technique software version of the crimson software.
Thanks
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 09:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irondesk40 View Post
i have downloaded the redlion software as well since there does seem to be more info on the redlion sight than on Emerson site. I did download a sample crimson trace file but was unable to open it with the control technique software even after i changed the extension. Have not tried to download a crisom 3 file and change the extension to see if i can open it with the control technique software version of the crimson software.
Thanks
You definitely don't want to try bringing Crimson 3 files into CTvue. CT is stuck in Crimson 2.o for whatever reason and have not made the jump.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 08:35 AM   #10
JeremyH
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irondesk40,

You will not be able to open a Crimson file in CTvue or the other way around. If you open the PDF file of the software manual and search for "switch" you will be taking to the section of the manual which describes using switch statments. A program with a simple switch statement is all that is required to changes pages based on a variable.

Thanks
Jeremy
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Old July 24th, 2012, 11:45 AM   #11
DamianInRochester
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Jeremy, I was able to open a CTV file just fine and vise-versa simply be renaming the extension. Granted, I never downloaded the files to a unit, but they loaded with no errors.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 12:00 PM   #12
JeremyH
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Damian,

Not sure what you are doing special but if you just change the extension you will get an error stating Unable to Load from the Specified File
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Old July 24th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #13
irondesk40
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Thanks for assistance. Have been able to get it working with a micrologix 1400 and able to switch screens after some emails and assistance from folks on this site.
To be honest I do wish there was a better document that would explain the way you would create programs etc.. My background is ladder logic but it appears this HMI and the Control technique drives and HMI units use statement time programming.
I have searched the last couple of days trying to find something for dummys but no luck yet.
I realize its a matter of getting familiar with it, but on this I was thrown in and told this is what we are going to use and it needs to be completed yesterday. I am sure a lot of other folks on here deal with a lot worse than I do, but myself without this site and folks that are willing to give advice I dont think I would be able to get anything done. We use to have 7 full time electronic controls folks in our group but now down to only 1 and that is me and its pretty difficult to deal with ab and omron and mitsubishi and idec and siemens and automation direct on all of the equipment without this site. THANKS TO EVERYONE ON THIS SITE, IT ROCKS.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 09:11 PM   #14
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Crimson is very powerful, but you do need time to adjust. If at all possible, I would suggest using Crimson 3.0 to program the unit. It's editor is so far superior to the rest of the pack, it should quickly make up for most of the time you are spending getting acclimated to the syntax and toolbox in the G3.

I have done around a half dozen G3 projects now, and I still found myself looking up the syntax for the If/else statement the other day, as well as switch/case. I started my search looking for select/case...

If you are used to having certain objects already done for you, then yes, it is like being given a half finished ferrari and a box of strange looking tools, when you could just jump in the chevette with power windows and start driving...

Yes, post questions here, but if you need fast answers during business hours, call them too.

Do you have any computer programming languages other than ladder logic in your past? The C-like syntax of Crimson is not a far reach from someone who's been exposed to BASIC or any of several other human language based programming languages.
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Old July 24th, 2012, 09:43 PM   #15
DamianInRochester
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Music

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyH View Post
Damian,

Not sure what you are doing special but if you just change the extension you will get an error stating Unable to Load from the Specified File

Hi Jeremy,
The attached file is NOT a .zip file. Change the extension to .ctv and it will load into CTVue.
Change the extension to .cd2, and then upload it into Crimson 3.0 build 493.003.

After I check both boxes and hit import, it opens with no errors.

Possibly the error you mention happens if you try to bring it directly into Crimson 2.0. I don't have C2 installed on this computer yet, so I couldn't try.

Are there any issues having both Crimson 2.0 and Crimson 3.0 installed on the same machine?
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File Type: jpg C2 to C3.jpg (71.6 KB, 21 views)
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File Type: zip MeTest.zip (13.1 KB, 18 views)
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