1336 impact drive

[mikie2243]

Currently running 1336 impact drives and have 1 that is giving an error 01052 mtr overload trip. the trouble shooting guide we have says to change the parameters in the drive. this is not an option that we can use. their are four drives working together and they all have the same parameters. we have looked every where we can think of. can anyone help?

 

[OZEE]

If this is in a system that has been running for awhile, my first advice would be that that error is indicating an overload condition to which the drive is responding. Instead of adjusting a parameter, you need to identify and fix the overload condition.

With a "traditional starter" you wouldn't just keep up-sizing the overloads when they trip, would you??

 

[mikie2243]

The motor is not bad though it megers correctly. we have been hunting this for a while.

 

[sakshi]

Currently running 1336 impact drives and have 1 that is giving an error 01052 mtr overload trip. the trouble shooting guide we have says to change the parameters in the drive. this is not an option that we can use. their are four drives working together and they all have the same parameters. we have looked every where we can think of. can anyone help?

u can use cooling at drive nad motor side,check earthing is proper or not,

 

[sthompson]

The motor is not bad though it megers correctly. we have been hunting this for a while.

I have seen motors megger ok, and still be bad. If you have a spare motor, try changing it out. I have also seen components in a VFD fail such that they report a fictitious fault. If you have a spare 1336 Drive, try changing it out. Lastly, if the VFD is seeing a true overload, in just about all cases, it is a result of the connected load. So, investigate for problems there.

Stu....

 

[OkiePC]

... in just about all cases, it is a result of the connected load. So, investigate for problems there.

Stu....

I concur.

I, too, have seen motors that pass a megger test perfectly and ohm good leg to leg, but will not run properly. This has happened here at least 4 times in the last 3 years with our stainless washdown motors.

If you have been working on this for a long time, then you have likely already ruled out the basic stuff, but it never hurts to double check, or have other sets of eyes on the problem. It might be worth your while to have a motor repair shop come in and perform a thorough analysis of the motor. We have done that with large compressor motors and they have found things with their equipment that will not show up on a megger...I wasn't there to witness it, so I can't say what they used or how they tested...

Can you tell us more about the application?

 

[The Plc Kid]

Yep a megger can't detect small turn to turn faults within a coil or broken or cracked rotor bars and a multitude of other things.

MCA motor circuit analysis equipment will though. We use alltest pro units and they work great and are easy enough for bubba to use. http://www.alltestpro.com/default.asp

Many companies make these but the all test pro is the more easy to use unit and the pricing is a little better than some of the competition. I did a demo with 3 different brands before choosing alltest.

They a good investment to make.

OP never mentioned the megger voltage he was using. May need to try a higher voltage for a longer time period

 

[sthompson]

Paul:

I have seen it done, the unit or local motor shop uses looks a lot like an oscilloscope, and they interpret the traces on the scope. This has shown a motor as bad, when it meggered ok. I also had them show me the difference when they brought it back from rewinding it, and even I could see the difference.

GT:

Interesting analyzers. What model did you go with?

Stu....

 

[OkiePC]

Paul:

I have seen it done, the unit or local motor shop uses looks a lot like an oscilloscope, and they interpret the traces on the scope. This has shown a motor as bad, when it meggered ok. I also had them show me the difference when they brought it back from rewinding it, and even I could see the difference.

When I was in tech school we got a 5 minute demo of something that sounds very similar...suitcase with probes and scope and hardcopies of typical versus flawed...

GT:

Interesting analyzers. What model did you go with?

Stu....

Yeah, same question here...we have a couple dozen large compressor motors that desparately need a better PM program...

 

[DickDV]

I certainly concur that this is far more likely to be a developing motor problem than anything else.

First, be sure you are using a 1000V megger if this is a 480V motor.

Second, have a trusted motor shop bring in better equipment to evaluate the motor. Modern drives are very good at detecting trouble very early in the development of it.

Are you sure this is "Motor Overtemp" or Motor Overload" fault?. If it is "Overcurrent", "Short Circuit", or "Ground" fault, that's a whole different situation.

Finally, it is altogether possible that all four drives have their motor data and overload protection parameters set up wrong and this one system is the only one that is faulting, due to minor differences in the motor and load. I would strongly recommend a review of those parameters. It is especially important that the motor FLA and slip speed be entered correctly.

 

[rev667]

Having had a similar problem on a 60kw motor driven by a 75kw VSD, changed both the motor and the drive without curing the problem. Eventually tracked it down to a bad bearing in the connected load, nothing electrical at all!

 

[DickDV]

That reminds me of another thing. Check to see if the running amps on the problem machine is slightly higher. That alone would make me think that the parameters are set a bit wrong.

 

[mikie2243]

These 4 motors drive trams back and forth 1.2 miles they are connected by a control net cable and receive their fwd and reverse and speed commands over it. each drive is connected to its own axle. That's as basic as I can explain it.

thanks.

 

[sthompson]

These 4 motors drive trams back and forth 1.2 miles they are connected by a control net cable and receive their fwd and reverse and speed commands over it. each drive is connected to its own axle. That's as basic as I can explain it.

thanks.

I would guess from your description that changing out motors is not a trivial task. There are things that you can do though. Check the axle driven by the problem motor for mechanical issues. Bad bearings, (Dragging Brakes?) bad gearboxes if fitted etc. If you don't have a spare 1336 VFD, try swapping two of them, and see if the problem stays on the same axle, or moves with the VFD. Bring in your nearest motor shop with better test equipment, and have them do a test of the motor. If the motor can be uncoupled easily from the axle, uncouple it, and spin the motor looking for mechanical problems like bad bearings etc. The shaft should spin freely without any tight spots or bad noises.

You only really have 3 choices, either there is a mechanical problem with the axle causing the overload condition, there is a problem with the motor, or there is a problem with the VFD, which could also include its power and motor wiring, inline inductors etc. For instance, a bad connection on one of the phases to the motor could cause higher current on the remaining two phases.

Since you describe it as a motor overload, in my experience that is almost always a problem in the connected load. The next most common problem is the motor, wiring issues surrounding the VFD, and very rarely, a problem with the VFD (failed internal component etc).

Others may have had different experiences, but that has been my experience working on well over a thousand Motor Systems, and hundreds of VFD/Motor systems.

Stu.....

 

[mikie2243]

That reminds me of another thing. Check to see if the running amps on the problem machine is slightly higher. That alone would make me think that the parameters are set a bit wrong.

We have used drive observer to compare all 4 drives and the parameters on all 4 are the same. The only thing you see when it fails is a spike in current.