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What would a VOLTMETER read? AC DC or undecided?
2 sensors 1 input
- Thread starter ready961
- Start date
randylud
Member
Wow, you guys need a hobby!
With all due respect to mrowen's many and learned "books", you need to get a grip on the real world my friend. All of the responses that have been give to the original question posed by the poor guy looking for help were correct and usable by him. What the heck is your excuse? If you feel that the "books" are all that you need to live by, then I feel for you. I teach electricity and electronics for a living and I also have a respectable degree in engineering in addition to 20+years of field experience. If I were to tell my students what you have been trying to sell here, they would make me prove it. If you can go to the work bench or into the plant and prove your point, then it is something people can live with and get their jobs done. If not, then the "theory" you keep pushing is not worth the paper it is written on. By the way, being condescending is not much good in the help department either. You have had the benefit of expertise here on this thread and you would do well to put the books back on the shelf and absorb some reality from my learned colleagues. They know from whence they speak!
Q E D ! !
With all due respect to mrowen's many and learned "books", you need to get a grip on the real world my friend. All of the responses that have been give to the original question posed by the poor guy looking for help were correct and usable by him. What the heck is your excuse? If you feel that the "books" are all that you need to live by, then I feel for you. I teach electricity and electronics for a living and I also have a respectable degree in engineering in addition to 20+years of field experience. If I were to tell my students what you have been trying to sell here, they would make me prove it. If you can go to the work bench or into the plant and prove your point, then it is something people can live with and get their jobs done. If not, then the "theory" you keep pushing is not worth the paper it is written on. By the way, being condescending is not much good in the help department either. You have had the benefit of expertise here on this thread and you would do well to put the books back on the shelf and absorb some reality from my learned colleagues. They know from whence they speak!
Q E D ! !
Rick Densing
Member
Randy,
What in the world are you talking about?
What in the world are you talking about?
randylud
Member
Glad you asked!
Mostly mrowen's treatise on DC and how useless all his input was. Did I do that poor a job of explaining myself? The comment about needing a hobby is just frustration I suppose for such a long thread over mostly nothing and the same theme over and over again, perpetuated by Mr. mrowen. Make more sense now Rick?
Mostly mrowen's treatise on DC and how useless all his input was. Did I do that poor a job of explaining myself? The comment about needing a hobby is just frustration I suppose for such a long thread over mostly nothing and the same theme over and over again, perpetuated by Mr. mrowen. Make more sense now Rick?
Actually, I started my input by correcting two simple things. sinking/sourceing issue and stating my Edumacation on Ac/dc. As for teaching in the real world, I assure you, I have a firm grip. As for theory, I didn't even begin to discuss that. Just how do electrons actually move? Wanna touch that. I hope not.
As for teaching people a view point that gets them by, well, .....
nevermind.
All things positive must be DC. Yeah right.
As for teaching people a view point that gets them by, well, .....
nevermind.
All things positive must be DC. Yeah right.
Rick Densing
Member
Re: Glad you asked!
I suppose. I was in a testy mood last night.
randylud said:
I suppose. I was in a testy mood last night.
randylud
Member
Testy is ok once in a while!
Rick, I suppose you could say I was testy when I put my first response post up about this mrowen character. You know, life is tough enough and what we believe to be true is oft times just what we have experienced. To bring the nit picking drivel mrowen did to a topic is just plain not of any use. All it does is create confusion and sometimes even testiness. I see how you might have not understood my tirade. I apologize to you and the other members for letting this guy get my dander up. It is always a good choice not to argue points with such folks, so I am not anymore. Glad you are feeling better Rick.
Rick, I suppose you could say I was testy when I put my first response post up about this mrowen character. You know, life is tough enough and what we believe to be true is oft times just what we have experienced. To bring the nit picking drivel mrowen did to a topic is just plain not of any use. All it does is create confusion and sometimes even testiness. I see how you might have not understood my tirade. I apologize to you and the other members for letting this guy get my dander up. It is always a good choice not to argue points with such folks, so I am not anymore. Glad you are feeling better Rick.
Did you even read my response.
"Just a couple of things here.
First, Diodes DO NOT convert AC signals to DC signals. Diodes and capacitors can do this but not just diodes. A diode inline with an AC signal will produce a half wave rectified signal, not a dc signal.
Second, a sinking input will sink current into the plc which means that the sensor will source the current. Or put another way, the sensor will supply current to the plc input. This is achieved by using a PNP sensor and wiring the inputs as sinking type input.
And finally, the fundamental purpose of using plc's is to eliminate relay logic. If you can possibly use two separate inputs, then you should do so. If this is not possible, either use diodes (if this is a dc circuit) inline with each sensors output or use the relay as previously described. Personally, I think the relay description above is a bit fancy. A more intuitive (for the next guy anyway) way is to wire each sensor output to its own NO relay coil. Then simply wire the two output sides of the NO contacts together and run to plc input.
"
Please note the lack of personal attacks. I came to this site to learn a bit about PLC programming. I should not have deviated from that quest. You certainly will not hear anymore from this Hobbiless Character.
"Just a couple of things here.
First, Diodes DO NOT convert AC signals to DC signals. Diodes and capacitors can do this but not just diodes. A diode inline with an AC signal will produce a half wave rectified signal, not a dc signal.
Second, a sinking input will sink current into the plc which means that the sensor will source the current. Or put another way, the sensor will supply current to the plc input. This is achieved by using a PNP sensor and wiring the inputs as sinking type input.
And finally, the fundamental purpose of using plc's is to eliminate relay logic. If you can possibly use two separate inputs, then you should do so. If this is not possible, either use diodes (if this is a dc circuit) inline with each sensors output or use the relay as previously described. Personally, I think the relay description above is a bit fancy. A more intuitive (for the next guy anyway) way is to wire each sensor output to its own NO relay coil. Then simply wire the two output sides of the NO contacts together and run to plc input.
"
Please note the lack of personal attacks. I came to this site to learn a bit about PLC programming. I should not have deviated from that quest. You certainly will not hear anymore from this Hobbiless Character.
elevmike
Member
More work for the brown spoon.
Yea, as a matter of fact.
Why dont you tell us all why a stranded conductor can carry more current then a solid conductor of the same size (AWG).
Which way do electrons really flow, and why do they call it positive & negative?
Why is gold a better conductor then copper, and copper a better conductor than alum?
If silicon is a dielectric, than how does it conduct in solid state devices?
Why phosphorous and boron?
And how will knowing all this help me in designing and building a control panel?
mrowen said:
Yea, as a matter of fact.
Why dont you tell us all why a stranded conductor can carry more current then a solid conductor of the same size (AWG).
Which way do electrons really flow, and why do they call it positive & negative?
Why is gold a better conductor then copper, and copper a better conductor than alum?
If silicon is a dielectric, than how does it conduct in solid state devices?
Why phosphorous and boron?
And how will knowing all this help me in designing and building a control panel?
Rick Densing
Member
Re: More work for the brown spoon.
If you want to be that way, look at the top of the page. It doesn't say "designing and building a control panel Q&A."
Threads get hijacked and thrown off course. That happens. It may not be true in this case, but often the tangents get more interesing that the original subject. The old format of the forum was better able to handle that mode than the current one.
Some people here are going to treat this forum as "all business", some are going treat it like a group of engineers at the corner pub.
All of the advice given here is worth the price you paid for it.
Also, as someone here once pointed out, you have bunch of guys used to being "alpha geek." Sometimes egos are going to bump into each other.
elevmike said:
If you want to be that way, look at the top of the page. It doesn't say "designing and building a control panel Q&A."
Threads get hijacked and thrown off course. That happens. It may not be true in this case, but often the tangents get more interesing that the original subject. The old format of the forum was better able to handle that mode than the current one.
Some people here are going to treat this forum as "all business", some are going treat it like a group of engineers at the corner pub.
All of the advice given here is worth the price you paid for it.
Also, as someone here once pointed out, you have bunch of guys used to being "alpha geek." Sometimes egos are going to bump into each other.
elevmike
Member
Rick,
No dobut that getting off topic is not all that bad, and many times humerous, and educational. What I'm complaining about is the total uselessness of the DC argument presented here.
It is my personal feeling that if it dosnt provide some educational, or entertainment (aka humor) value, then off with it.
I can only blame myself that I even bothered to respond to it. In my opinion it was an obivious goading session; and it worked. Ron, whom I hold in high esteem, and mean no offense to, got so excited he started a thread on his forum to furher bolster his already rock solid, and indisputable argument. It seems that he wisely remove the thread, probably realizing he had been had by this guy.
ready961, It's not your fault some stray dog left a "treasure" on you front lawn. You cant really blame the dog either; he's just doing what comes naturally to him.
Have a nice weekend.
No dobut that getting off topic is not all that bad, and many times humerous, and educational. What I'm complaining about is the total uselessness of the DC argument presented here.
It is my personal feeling that if it dosnt provide some educational, or entertainment (aka humor) value, then off with it.
I can only blame myself that I even bothered to respond to it. In my opinion it was an obivious goading session; and it worked. Ron, whom I hold in high esteem, and mean no offense to, got so excited he started a thread on his forum to furher bolster his already rock solid, and indisputable argument. It seems that he wisely remove the thread, probably realizing he had been had by this guy.
ready961, It's not your fault some stray dog left a "treasure" on you front lawn. You cant really blame the dog either; he's just doing what comes naturally to him.
Have a nice weekend.
rsdoran
Lifetime Supporting Member
I will say one more thing
That statement is what made me offer the information on DC. I believe that statement to be incorrect information and very misleading. A half-wave rectified signal is pulsating DC, capacitors just lessen ripple.
What bothered me is the fact that I am sitting in a room full of geeks, engineers, techs etc and many of you are agreeing with that blatant misleading information.
I created the other site for a place to locate that kind of information and NOW many of you are basically telling me I wasted my time because it is ALL WRONG.
My information, sources and links all provide the same answer and are correct.
It was not the person that got to me, it was the response on the subject from many of you.
That statement is what made me offer the information on DC. I believe that statement to be incorrect information and very misleading. A half-wave rectified signal is pulsating DC, capacitors just lessen ripple.
What bothered me is the fact that I am sitting in a room full of geeks, engineers, techs etc and many of you are agreeing with that blatant misleading information.
I created the other site for a place to locate that kind of information and NOW many of you are basically telling me I wasted my time because it is ALL WRONG.
My information, sources and links all provide the same answer and are correct.
It was not the person that got to me, it was the response on the subject from many of you.
Rube
Member
Why doesn't everyone just calm down? Don't let this thing get any bigger and it WON"T. Too much effort has been wasted already--getting testy just wastes more.
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