AD Panel interface

[arkyny]

Greetings all:

Is there anybody here that are about to be required to "suit up" when you open up a control panel to troubleshoot? I came up with the idea to prevent this by going to panel interface, otherwise, outside panel laptop-plc interface without opening the cabinet. I ordered one of these, PLC DL-105, 6 pin connector, from PLC to back of interface. Cant connect. I bought the DO-CBL from AD, patch cable, but maybe the cable is wired wrong. CAT 5. I know that the cable from the plc to the interface should be exactly parallel, but cant connect. GRRRRRR

Im the same one that had the USB-SERIAL problem, but when I hook straight to the plc, voilla. Any suggestions?

 

[rkukl]

HI
I install these on all my panels. I have found the units from Grace Engineering GracePorts to be well built and trouble free. I typically order a unit with a GFI on the outside with single outlet inside and an Ethernet port. The only issue I have is making sure I order the correct part as the part #s are easy to confuse. But now that I have a standard works great.
I also use their voltage detector units. It has a nice look with blinking LEds to indicate voltage present then non-contact voltage

Here is a link (I HOPE)
http://www.graceport.com/products.cfm

 

[arkyny]

Thanks, my problem also, part numbers, love the led thing. These compatible with AD? Shouldnt the cable be parallel from the PLC port to the interface port? I looked at the cable, the wires were switched on pins 3 and 4

 

[matthew1]

Just wondering you have a PLC in a cabinet with level 1-4 Arch fault (<2.3cal^2) current rating?

 

[bernie_carlton]

The DO-CBL is a null-modem cable for easily linking just two of the products with the RJ12 RS232 port together for a mini network.

It looks like the DV-1000CBL may be a straight through cable. Or you may want to call their ordering department for advice.

 

[arkyny]

Matthew1, our safety team has determined any cabinet with voltage of 55vac/dv or higher to be classified as arc flash danger. Whew

 

[Tom Jenkins]

Matthew1, our safety team has determined any cabinet with voltage of 55vac/dv or higher to be classified as arc flash danger. Whew

That's BS and a cop out because they are too lazy or uninformed to do an analysis. I'm not an arc flash expert, but I do know that there many are levels of arc flash protection required based on the hazard potential in a panel.

It might be true that you can generate an arc flash in a 56 Volt system. That doesn't mean a moon suit! For some hazard levels the code considers flame treated cotton clothing adequate. Some levels of hazard require gloves and a face screen. Some levels require absolutely no work on the panel live even if you're in a moon suit.

 

[WildeKurt]

You'd really need to have an analysis done of your plant to determine the various levels. In a plant our size and age this would be a huge undertaking so it's never been done. Without that information I'm afraid we'd get what arkyny has. We've already been told we need to wear flame retardant clothing and gloves in any panel. Haven't seen it enforced though.

 

[milldrone]

Is there anybody here that are about to be required to "suit up" when you open up a control panel to troubleshoot?

We have some cabinets where all we need to wear is our company supplied flame resistant pants, shirts and class 0 gloves, hardhats and safety shoes.

Just wondering you have a PLC in a cabinet with level 1-4 Arch fault (<2.3cal^2) current rating?

We also have a PLC in a cabinet that has a greater than 40 cal rating. So for this cabinet we can never open it up when under 3phase power, (note the PLC has it's own power supply so we can leave the PLC powered up) for troubleshooting.

Matthew1, our safety team has determined any cabinet with voltage of 55vac/dv or higher to be classified as arc flash danger. Whew

This is were we were at two years ago (>50 volts). Two safety directors and a arc flash training course later, and discovering a arc flash study was already done as far down as the major MCC level, and convincing our onsite EE to let me do the rest of the study with his oversight. I managed to get many (not all) of our most maintenance intensive cabinets classified.

. We've already been told we need to wear flame retardant clothing and gloves in any panel. Haven't seen it enforced though.

As I mentioned earlier If you are an electrician at my work place you wear the company supplied flame resistant pants, shirts, shoes (dielectric), and "E" rated hard hats just to punch in.

Concerning the greater than 40 cal cabinet I mentioned earlier, we have to wear a 40 cal (moon) suit, just to remote trip the vacuum contactor, then throw the disconnect.

We found the hazard risk category's are are just too complicated to comply with as found in appendix A of NFPA70E. So we have opted for allowing trouble shooting with FR clothing and class 0 gloves when we have classed the cabinet at class 2 or less and an arc rating of less than 8. Note: "trouble shooting" is just that, we cannot use anything other than meters (no screwdrivers or wrenches) with the power on. Also we are not allowed to open any of those cute din fuse holders with the power on.

 

[Tom Jenkins]

This is a good introductory article on the topic:

http://www.waterworld.com/articles/...-arc-flash-hazards-in-the-water-industry.html

 

[arkyny]

Thanks, a lot of good info here guys. Be sure that I will share some of this.:site:

 

[arkyny]

Tom, two good points, first, it is BS, and second of all, they have no knowledge of the arc flash analysis. I work for the rail road. Go figure!

 

[rootboy]

That's BS and a cop out because they are too lazy or uninformed to do an analysis. I'm not an arc flash expert, but I do know that there many are levels of arc flash protection required based on the hazard potential in a panel.

It might be true that you can generate an arc flash in a 56 Volt system. That doesn't mean a moon suit! For some hazard levels the code considers flame treated cotton clothing adequate. Some levels of hazard require gloves and a face screen. Some levels require absolutely no work on the panel live even if you're in a moon suit.

Amen, brother.

I worked for Schneider Electric, and even after the company went through arc flash tests on the equipment that we were installing (which clocked in at 1/4 cal at 18 inch - nothing!), we *still* had to suit up to 40 cal just to plug in an Ethernet cable.

Ever try to plug in an Ethernet cable using rubber liners and class 0 gloves? I wish you luck...

It was one of the reasons why I came back to GM, I knew eventually that I would trip up and get canned (zero tolerance means zero tolerance at Schneider).

 

[arkyny]

Rootboy,:site: yes, it is crazy, and they will realize this when a machine is down. Wait, gotta have me gloves on, everybody stand clear, Im hooking up an RJ 12 connector to my high voltage laptop, but i will have the machine running, or make program changes in about an hour, wait, I have to removes these gloves to type on my laptop, but wait, I have to put them back on to unplug the RJ 12.