Allen Bradley PLC & Panel View Plus

[RHEX-Jeff]

Here at My work we purchased a system from an Automation vendor a year or so ago and the Allen Bradley PLC and Panel View Plus give control to this system about 4 months ago the Trend History stopped working on one of the 3 Panel View's the other two work fine, then another Panel View stopped working, The Last one is still working but I'm almost sure it may fail as well. Both of the ones that have quit displaying Trend History can show an hour's worth of history if you bring up the trend screen (one of 5 screens) and don't click out/from that screen if you do click out to any other screen the hour of trend History is gone. The Automation company is not able to help me for less than $8,000+ which is not good. has any one ran into this type of problem ?
currently I don't have all the software necessary to program / access the PLC nor the Panel View HMI.

 

[rQx]

8000??? That sounds crazy! If they sold it for sure I woukd expect them to atleast look at the problem and see if they made an error..

 

[parky]

Not done trending on PV but is the memory full, i.e. it cannot log as there is no room for any more logs.

 

[rQx]

We have had problem with the logging on PV+ series and Rockwell could explain why, I'll see if I can get hold of the discussion. We ended up not using the trend

 

[Ken Roach]

Welcome to the PLCTalk forum community !

I don't have all the software necessary to program / access the PLC nor the Panel View HMI.

Unfortunately, without examining the program or getting very detailed observations most diagnostics we can do will be guesses. Buying and maintaining those tools, and knowing how, is how most of us make a living.

Is the trend function the only part of the PanelView that is failing, or are other aspects malfunctioning, like "wireframing" of display objects or failure of the control system to respond to touchscreen actions ?

There are a handful of settings in FactoryTalk View Studio software that could be contributing to buffers or files filling up or failing. Maybe they set up a deep archive that has reached its maximum size and didn't configure it to delete the oldest files, or it's been configured to use a removable media device (USB or SD card) and that has filled up.

Unfortunately those settings can't be altered using the configuration menus or Windows CE desktop settings; they're part of the project file from FTView Studio and anyone examining the system will need the *.APA "Project Archive" file from your machine builder.

I concur with rQx that FTView / PanelView Plus has more than its fair share of bugs in the Trend object over the years, but the product came out in 2003 so there's a lot of possible aging stuff and opportunities for the problems to have been fixed in whatever version Jeff has.

 

[James Mcquade]

Welcome to the forum.

my 2 cents.
it sounds like the company lost a ton on this project and wish to recover some of the losses. they may have known about this issue when they shipped the machine and couldn't fix it in time, so they shipped it. now the warranty is out they are off the hook. i know of this happening before. but as already stated, the file buffer may be getting full or at max.
james

 

[Geospark]

Hi & Welcome!

...the Allen Bradley PLC and Panel View Plus give control to this system about 4 months ago the Trend History stopped working on one of the 3 Panel View's the other two work fine, then another Panel View stopped working...

This technote (which I'm sure you cannot access?) specifically calls out your scenario where there is trending activity but no historical data being retained...

ID: BF22079 | Access Levels: TechConnect
FactoryTalk View ME: Trend does not contain historical data

Of the list of possible causes, I think the easiest and most likely cause, seeing as it has happened to 2 of the 3 terminals so far, and possibly may happen to the third, is the last suggestion of the the log files filling up the memory? So I would concur with others thinking the same thing here.

The technote does also mention the possibility of the data log file being corrupt but it's less likely that this has happened on 2 terminals? But, you would never know?

"If" you can access Configuration Mode on the terminal, you could try deleting the log files yourself. This would not require you to have any software.

Now might be a good time to let us know the catalog number of both the "Allen Bradley PLC and Panel View Plus"? We might not need to know the controller model but it always helps us in case there are any surprises. For the terminals, knowing the type will let us know how best to advise you to enter Configuration Mode, should you wish to try.

Regards,
George

 

[RHEX-Jeff]

Hi & Welcome!



This technote (which I'm sure you cannot access?) specifically calls out your scenario where there is trending activity but no historical data being retained...

ID: BF22079 | Access Levels: TechConnect
FactoryTalk View ME: Trend does not contain historical data

Of the list of possible causes, I think the easiest and most likely cause, seeing as it has happened to 2 of the 3 terminals so far, and possibly may happen to the third, is the last suggestion of the the log files filling up the memory? So I would concur with others thinking the same thing here.

The technote does also mention the possibility of the data log file being corrupt but it's less likely that this has happened on 2 terminals? But, you would never know?

"If" you can access Configuration Mode on the terminal, you could try deleting the log files yourself. This would not require you to have any software.

Now might be a good time to let us know the catalog number of both the "Allen Bradley PLC and Panel View Plus"? We might not need to know the controller model but it always helps us in case there are any surprises. For the terminals, knowing the type will let us know how best to advise you to enter Configuration Mode, should you wish to try.

Regards,
George

I have went into the menu that is outside of the panel view's project & deleted the log file, no change the history trend is not saving data.
The Catalog numbers of the PLC, A-B:1769-L33ER. & PV-P7:2711P-T12W22D8S.

 

[VAN]

I have went into the menu that is outside of the panel view's project & deleted the log file, no change the history trend is not saving data.
The Catalog numbers of the PLC, A-B:1769-L33ER. & PV-P7:2711P-T12W22D8S.

What happens when you reboot the panelview? Does the trend work when it first starts? (Datalogging is what its called.)

You might boot into the WinCE and check out the free memory, or look at the memory card.

I can't remember if I had alarm issues or trend issues when a PLC was nearly out of memory. Can you check if the PLC has plenty of free memory (this might be the wrong direction).

Now, are the trends needed for a long time or just a nice to have? Might start looking into a historian or a SCADA that can handle trending data.

 

[RHEX-Jeff]

What happens when you reboot the panelview? Does the trend work when it first starts? (Datalogging is what its called.)

You might boot into the WinCE and check out the free memory, or look at the memory card.

I can't remember if I had alarm issues or trend issues when a PLC was nearly out of memory. Can you check if the PLC has plenty of free memory (this might be the wrong direction).

Now, are the trends needed for a long time or just a nice to have? Might start looking into a historian or a SCADA that can handle trending data.

I have rebooted the Panel View many times to no avail. also booting into windows (The desktop) takes a password which I have little chance of getting.
The same error pops up in a small blue feild with a grey back round at the top left corner, ((error reads): -Cannot create a file when that file already exists). ((next error): Model_All_log NOT Started.)does this shed any light ? as far as needing the History, I use it to look at what problems if any of the previous shift had and or trouble shoot and to see what is out of the norm etc. etc. all the panel views were programmed to hold 7 days of history, the last of three panel view's is still working fine not sure why ? we can run operations with out any history but when something goes wrong I'm the one that gets tasked to find out where, what, when, why & so on.

 

[VAN]

I have rebooted the Panel View many times to no avail. also booting into windows (The desktop) takes a password which I have little chance of getting.
The same error pops up in a small blue feild with a grey back round at the top left corner, ((error reads): -Cannot create a file when that file already exists). ((next error): Model_All_log NOT Started.)does this shed any light ? as far as needing the History, I use it to look at what problems if any of the previous shift had and or trouble shoot and to see what is out of the norm etc. etc. all the panel views were programmed to hold 7 days of history, the last of three panel view's is still working fine not sure why ? we can run operations with out any history but when something goes wrong I'm the one that gets tasked to find out where, what, when, why & so on.

Yeah, model_all_log is probably the data log. If I were you, I would really push and see if SCADA could be brought onsite. The downer is without access to the code it might be tough grabbing the right tags. Also, if the tags are actually named with something that makes sense.

You can demo Ignition for 2 hours and renew the trial period forever (this use to be true, and I assume it still is). This would at least let you know if its something you want to try. I don't remember if it collects data while the trial period expires. Personally, I would be looking at how to get away from the HMIs because what are you going to do when they need to be upgraded (or die)?

I don't remember if you can manually start/stop the data log.

 

[Geospark]

...The Catalog numbers of the PLC, A-B:1769-L33ER. & PV-P7:2711P-T12W22D8S.

OK, PanelView Plus 7 - This technote includes the basic configuration required in the application software to ensure proper historical trending at runtime...

ID: BF11331 | Access Levels: TechConnect
FactoryTalk View ME: Trend history does not work - configuration to check

But you probably cannot access that, nor have you the software to check the settings? Still, if it was working for these two terminals it is hard to see they are now both suddenly "misconfigured"? Always worth double-checking these things though.

For the datalog model not started...

ID: BF11966 | Access Levels: TechConnect
PanelView Plus: Model "data log model name" not started

Again, a few things to check or try there but you are not going to be able to carry out any of these things without the software or access to Windows CE. You are going to need software, or someone with software, to look over the application for you.

You could try copy the application file to a USB drive and ZIP it up to the Forums and someone here might be able to at least have a look at that aspect of the puzzle for you?

The settings could be fine but the datalog could be corrupt. Someone recompiling the application for you could resolve such an issue. It's just one of many things that could be wrong here, however.

Regards,
George