automatic drill machine, need advice

[ndzied1]

snaggletto,

Would you be able to use a few limit switches to do the pecking ? BAsically the first limit switch will make it retract then it will go on to the next limit switch.....and so on until the done limit switch is activated. Also on another note, is your product your going to be drilling going to change (thickness) or is it always going to be the same ?

Or, you could use one switch That picks up different cams on the slide/quill of the drill unit. When you start the cycle, the first pulse referses the dril, then on the next stroke the 2nd pulse reverses the drill, and so on.

Depending on the peck distance it may be hard to get the switches close enough to each other. You can make cams smaller and get them closer together. Also the cams or targets should cost less than the switches.

Also, you may be able to add a speed check to your existing system.
http://www.deschner.com/kinechek.html makes them as well as other companies that can be found on globalspec (search hydraulic speed control). The key will be avioding off center loads on the quill.

 

[snaggletto]

Stephen Luft,

Your products are interesting, and I intend to look deeper into them. I particularly like the sound of analog and PWM outputs, as I have a particular interest in automating machine tools with servo or stepper based motion controls. I've tinkered around with some very affordable and powerful step/dir input stepper/servo drives from



They are made to work with PC parallel port output (5V TTL I believe). One thing I've noticed is that *most* PLC's I've looked at DO NOT support TTL inputs/outputs. Of course there is very limited IO when using this style of PC based, budget motion control. It would be very nice to be able to use a PLC with 5V TTL inputs/outputs by itself or in conjuction with a PC based control. Do your products support 5V TTL inputs/outputs (IE. compatible with a standard 25 pin PC parallel port output)? How about counters and reading quadrature encoders?

Pinworm21,

I don't think limit switches would do it. I need to peck around 5 times troughout ~1" of travel. But it really needs to be adjustable, as only 3 pecks might work fine. I'm wanting to get away from a "hardwired" configuration. Otherwise I could just stick in a bunch of timed relays and delay timers. The thicknesses of the parts, drill depth, will change. So again, flexibility is needed.

Bernie_Carlton,

I didn't realize that the 205 software wasn't backwards compatible. I could have sworn that I read that it was. That's truly a shame. Is there any loss of individual features by going with the full blown version, in respect to certain models like the '05 and '06?

ndzied1,

Cams? OUCH. Yes I suppose there are a million mechanical ways to get the motion I need. However, I'm lazy, and that would take way too much work/design. Even then, it would not a versatile solution. A servo/stepper driven "CNC" axis is by far the best, most versatile but most expensive way of dealing with this problem. With near infinitely programmable feedrates, and programmable motion control I don't see a better solution. I was just not wanting to spend that kind of money right now, but I see I'm talking myself into it.

 

[bernie_carlton]

The 'full blown' does all functions in all the PLCs. The other versions are just limited subsets of this.

 

[Stephen Luft]

snaggletto,

We can configure any of our products to do 5 volt ttl for inputs and outputs. Internal counters are available within the software. Regular inputs can count at approximately 30Hz. Unfortunately when going with a PWM output, you lose the 10 KHz HSC in the Smart-PAK PLUS. If you use analog in place of PWM then you would still have the HSC.

On our relay output controllers, we can do a 500 Hz software quadrature, in place of the 10KHz HSC. Our solid state controller, The Elite-2000 can be incorporated with up to 4 quadrature decoders. This system will probably be out of your price range, given what I believe to be a small budget.

 

[elevmike]

Elevmike,
I'm definitely sold on AD, I've been drooling over their catalog for over 6 months. I will give them a try in the near future, whether I go with them now or not.

What benefits would I gain by going with the "full boat" version over the ~$199 DL205 version? More instructions? I doubt to ever use anything more powerful than the DL205, in AD products.

As Bernie said the "brick" versions are pretty restricted to one model or another.. If you get the 205 "brick" and later want to work on a '06 then back to the software store..so to speak. Getting the full version will allow you to access any AD plc in the future. I dont know if AD sells a lot of the "brick" programming packages, but considering the cost difference..$300.00 is penuts when your spending 3-4 million a year.. It depends on you situation.. if you need to scrimp or not..

 

[pinworm21]

snaggletto,

Ok so with the 1" of travel the limit switches are out. You might be better off with a "String Pot" they work very well. You can find a description here http://www.celesco.com/faq/cet.html
Plus they give out a standard analog output.

Here are some, http://www.celesco.com/cet/index.html


Dave

 

[snaggletto]

Yes, I'm definitely on a small budget. I'm hoping to get a small, feature packed PLC in the <$500 range with software. But if you have a product that *really* fits my needs in regards to basic PLC functions and motion control capabilites... I don't mind spending a bit I filled out your form to get the password for your software. I'm going to take a look at that.

I see you can do 5V TTL, thats awesome. Can you mix and match with standard 24VDC ins/outs? I'm actually more interested in step/direction pulse output than analog or pwm at this point, however, those could be useful too. At most I might like to use 1 or 2 quad encoders at the same time as step/dir pulse output.

What about drum timers and some of those other advanced programming features that I read about with Automation Direct PLC's?

Please mail me directly, snaggletto at cox dot net as I've got TONS of questions to bore you with.

 

[elevmike]

Yes, I'm definitely on a small budget. I'm hoping to get a small, feature packed PLC in the <$500 range with software.

The DL05 & sofware is within your budegt. ~$200.00 for both.

I see you can do 5V TTL, thats awesome. Can you mix and match with standard 24VDC ins/outs? I'm actually more interested in step/direction pulse output than analog or pwm at this point, however, those could be useful too. At most I might like to use 1 or 2 quad encoders at the same time as step/dir pulse output.

Reading 2 quad encoders and using the pulse outputs will force you into a DL06. The '06 and sofware & extra counter module will force you out of your budget. If this is only for a pecking/feed operation then why 2 encoders??

What about drum timers and some of those other advanced programming features that I read about with Automation Direct PLC's?

The '05 & '06 have a Drum instruction. You can download the manuals here: http://www.automationdirect.com/static/manuals/index.html#dl05

Really tho "advanced" instructions are usually composits of less advanced instructions. You can usually roll your own via with a little imagination..

Please mail me directly, snaggletto at cox dot net as I've got TONS of questions to bore you with.

You should really post your questions on the forum. That way more people who might know better can help you out with it...

Sounds like your kinda new to the PLC world. My advice it to download or purchase a manual and do some bedtime reading. That way you'll get a better feel for what you want to do and how to approch it..and you'll be asking better questions that wont "bore" us all...

Have fun.. Mike

 

[ndzied1]

Cams? OUCH

Well, you said you were on a low budget. ☯

 

[elevmike]

snaggletto,

Norm's gotta point about the cam. This would basicly be an offest bearing placed into a slot on the drill carrage. a timer would lift rotate the bearing and lift the carrage. Very simple..and a LOT less expensive.. However if you want to do more then just peck; like set depth etc.. then a PLC would be the way to go..

 

[snaggletto]

Elevmike, ndzied1,

Thanks for your help. I kinda got off topic about the encoders, I don't need that for this application. I was really talking back to the Entertron guy about the features of his ePLC's.

The DLO5 would be fine what I'm needing now, and is perfectly in my range. The point of this thread was to look at alternative PLC's, and that has been accomplished.

I don't quite follow the 'cam' idea I guess. The drill carriage should not lift at any time. I'm speaking of a purely linear motion. Maybe most of you haven't seen a CNC milling machine drill deep holes, but I'm trying to accomplish the same thing. I just want the drill to quickly retract a few times while drilling the hole.

Thanks for everyones help, I really appreciate it.

 

[elevmike]

snaggletto

maybe your right. Drilling & pecking a deeep hole would may require extracting the bit compleatly from the hole. For the stepper control remember you'll need the D005DD (dc outputs).

Good luck with it...