Boy injection molding machines

[jim estes]

Hello, I have purchased 3 BOY 15s injeciton molding machines and I was interested in trying to upgrade the controls to PLCs. After several hours searching the internet I came across this forum. You guys seem to be the experts I am looking for.

I searched this forum and found this thread.

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=15597&highlight=injection+molding

I looked at the Proset 200 and I figure the cost is too high for these old machines, and I don't need all the bells and whistles.

Do you guys have any suggestions for a simple PLC retrofit for thes old machines. They only have three heater bands, and they are hydraulic clamp, and the positioning of the barrel, open and close is all controlled by microswitches, and thumbscrews.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

Injection molding machine control is not easy.

How do plan to do the velocity and the pressure profiles?

 

[Mostly]

Injection molding machines

Jim,

What are you looking at spending?
I would reccommend a DL06 and C-more touch screen from Automation Direct. This would get rid of the thumbwheels, and selector switches.
I've been doing IMM's for many years and have had good luck with their stuff.

 

[jim estes]

I didn't spend much on these machines, so I figure I can spend around $2000 each machine and still be able to get my money's worth out of them. As for the pressure and velocity, both are controlled presently by manually operated valve handwheels. All of the hydraulics are working on these machines, there are some leaks, but I can fix those fairly easily. When I bought these machines, I was hoping that they were in better shape, but the wring is just a mess. It seems that all the wires have been pulled at one time or another, none of them are in the channels, very few have labels, and some of the contactors and relays are missing in one of them. Most of the microswitches have been replaced or are not working.


Mostly, do you have any experience re-working the small BOY IMMs? I am very fond of these old machines, they are little wonders when it comes to small parts, I really want to get these things going, but I don't want to sink a bunch of money into a loosing venture. Do you think a budget of $2000 is enough to replace the entire control?

Thanks,

Jim

 

[Peter Nachtwey]

Do you think a budget of $2000 is enough to replace the entire control?

It depends on what you are making. One must consider the ROI and the degree of difficulty. $2000 doesn't sound like a lot. Fixing the hydraulics may cost that much. If you have never programmed an IMM you may find it harder than you think unless everything is open loop.

 

[CCatterton]

Do you think a budget of $2000 is enough to replace the entire control?

Thanks,

Jim

I think that you should increase your budget per machine, especially if you want total control through a PLC; since you would have to purchase new sensors, valves, switches, etc.

I agree with Mostly on the touchscreen, especially since you have more versitility with a screen over buttons and switches. Myself I would go with Allen Bradley over Automation Direct, just because I have had more success with AB

 

[504bloke]

If you are going for a touchscreen then take a look at the Redlion G3 Range, They are excellent pieces of kit, great value for money and there support is 200% rock solid.

I have used the SLC's BTM modules for extruder barrel heating and cooling and these are also excellent. The BTM's can be used without the proset stuff to make things cheaper.

 

[FarmerJay]

Hello there. I too run the Boy 15S machines along with some newer machines. My question to you is, if you're not looking to change the pressure and velocity over to a digital signal, and you're going to keep the manually adjusted valves, then why upgrade?

I came arcoss this forum while looking for parts, specifically a motor for one of my 15s Boy Machines. Actually, I bought the Boy machine off of Ebay that is set up for European Voltage of 380V and 50hz. Boy tells me the most expensive part of the conversion is finding a motor wired for US Voltage. I have thrown a few away in my years while scrapping parts machines, now I'm kicking myself! If anyone has a parts machine and they are willing to sell it or part of it, please email me directly at [email="[email protected]"][email protected][/email]

 

[ChuckM]

Years ago, I took some original electrical schematics for an old New Britain molding machine and converted it to PLC ladder logic using an Omron C200H. Everything was open loop and I used the existing temperature controllers and external timers. Were I to do the same project today, I'd use an Automation direct PLC and touchpanel unless there is a PLC brand you are more familiar with which would shorten the learning curve.

 

[TimWilborne]

Do you guys have any suggestions for a simple PLC retrofit for thes old machines. They only have three heater bands, and they are hydraulic clamp, and the positioning of the barrel, open and close is all controlled by microswitches, and thumbscrews.

What is being used currently for barrel positioning?
What type of accuracy are you looking for?

 

[jim estes]

FarmerJay,

The reason I want to upgrade these machines, is for reliability. I have one machine that will run in automatic, and one that I believe I can get running fairly easily. The third machine looks to have been canabalized for parts a bit. There are temp controllers and switches missing, and a couple of contactors are gone and most of the pushbutton switches on top are toast.

ChuckM,

What you did seems to be what I am looking to do, and I have looked into the AD PLC and Touch screens. If I had more experience programming PLCs I would have already ordered some electronics for it. The programming is what is holding me back, from reading on this forum, I feel like maybe programming the PLC and C-touch might be more than I can handle.

TWControls,

Presently, the machine has 1/2" round rods mounted on the moving platen and beside the barrel, these rods have adjustable tapered collars that activate mircoswitches. There is a switch for OPEN, CLOSED, MOLD PROTECT, GATE Safety, barrel forward, barrel back, and screw forward and back. The temps are controled by three temp controllers, and the cycle is controlled by three timers, the first for inject/hold time, the second for cooling time, and the third is for ejection stroke. I don't have any schematics for these machines and BOY told me that they have to have the serial # to get a shematic and they are $140.00 for each manual.

I am not looking to create some super nice machine with all the bells and whistles, but I do want to have some machines that I don't have to work on every day. I am not a molding company, I am a mold builder and these machines are primarily for sampling and maybe short run work. The molds I build that would run in these machines are not complicated, usually 1-4 cavity, with no slides or hydraulics. As for tolerances, most of the parts have +/- 0.005" on most dimensions, with occasionally a +/- 0.002. I would be using 5" x 8" MUD inserts usually 4140 steel, but occasionally 7075 aluminum.

These machines are my personal project for 2007, I believe I got a pretty good deal on them so I am willing to put some work into them.

Thanks for the replies.

Jim

 

[abdennnour]

Hello
I have some experience in injection molding machines.
If i uderstood , the pb is only with the third machine which is "canabalized" for may be spare parts. for this machine, i would suggestthe following:
1-the temperature control system would be kept as with individual temperature controllers, these latters will be connected to a plc which will allow or not the machine run(as security for the screw).
2-the control speed and pressure can be controlled with with the handvalves.
3-for the remaining part which is the command and automation, a plc can be used with a digital display to set parameters such as time, shot size and so on.
I think such program is very feasible and the machine can run easier and the project cheaper

 

[TimWilborne]

So your pretty much looking for a PLC with a handful of I/O and 3 temperature inputs?

Any particular brand you looking for? I'm thinking something like a Micrologix 1100

 

[gtsuport]

Just my $.02.

The $140 for the manual and schematic will probably more than pay for itself. If you have a relay diagram to work from, the base plc code should not be too difficult to generate. You can always add to it in the future.

Things to think about when choosing a plc would be product support, expandability and certainly cost. Don't back yourself into a corner for the future to save a few buck now.

Hope this will help.

 

[abdennnour]

I think a Siemens S7 200 with 24 inputs and 16 outputs will be very usefl for this application. I think it is cheap and easy to program. for the display, there existe TD200 display text, for the settings. For the positions(shot size, mold thickness, & so on), we can use coders in stead of limit switches.