Crimson 3 - Invalid database

[ais]

We have a PLC and Redlion HMI set-up.
Power is supplied via 2x12 V batteries in series hooked up to a battery charger.
Over the week-end we lost power and the batteries ran down.
This morning the HMI had an "invalid database" message on the display.
I have the databases on CD.
Which is the best/easiest way to reload the database.
Step by step instructions would be appreciated.

 

[Ken Roach]

Remember that in Red Lion terminology, a 'database' is the runtime application.

Use Crimson 3 software to reload the database into the terminal. Connecting over USB is probably the easiest and simplest way when the condition of the terminal is otherwise unknown.

I have seen some automation systems fail when they were put on battery power without a low-voltage cutout. The easiest workaround is to add a low-voltage disconnect relay and set it for about 21 volts.

 

[JHarbin]

We have a PLC and Redlion HMI set-up.
Power is supplied via 2x12 V batteries in series hooked up to a battery charger.
Over the week-end we lost power and the batteries ran down.
This morning the HMI had an "invalid database" message on the display.
I have the databases on CD.
Which is the best/easiest way to reload the database.
Step by step instructions would be appreciated.

The easiest method depends on which one it is. Most of the time the easiest is USB unless it is a G315 (but USB is only a problem for the G315 if you have a modern laptop).

 

[ais]

Thanks for the responses.
The HMI is a G310C2.
When I click o the Crimson 3.0 communications tag, I see 3 options :
- USB Host Ports
- Memory stick
- Keyboard

I only have a printer USB cable available, so will have to use the Type B USB port.
Do I need to do anything to set up a USB port.

Alternatively I have an Ethernet cable available.
N.B. I have not connected to the PC to the HMI as yet.

I also understand the database should be installed with the same build it was developed otherwise there may be firmware update issues.
So my question is - let's say the database was developed under build xxx1, but I am running build xxx2. If I were to open the database in xxx2 and save it again, would that overcome the firmware update issue?

 

[JHarbin]

Thanks for the responses.
The HMI is a G310C2.
When I click o the Crimson 3.0 communications tag, I see 3 options :
- USB Host Ports
- Memory stick
- Keyboard

I only have a printer USB cable available, so will have to use the Type B USB port.
Do I need to do anything to set up a USB port.

Alternatively I have an Ethernet cable available.
N.B. I have not connected to the PC to the HMI as yet.

I also understand the database should be installed with the same build it was developed otherwise there may be firmware update issues.
So my question is - let's say the database was developed under build xxx1, but I am running build xxx2. If I were to open the database in xxx2 and save it again, would that overcome the firmware update issue?

You should be able to use the USB port for downloading to that display with no problems.

Upgrading the firmware over USB is typically not a problem at all so if you are running a later version of Crimson 3.0 just save it and when you do the download to the display its firmware will be upgraded automatically.

 

[Ken Roach]

You don't have to configure anything in the Crimson 3 Navigation Plane to connect your computer (USB Type A, the flat plug) to the G3 (USB Type B, the square plug).

All you need to do is select the Link item from the top-level menu, select Options, and select USB as the communications port. Un-check 'Send to Emulator'.

That 'Link' setting determines how Crimson 3 software will download to the G3. As long as the G3 shows up in the Windows device manager under USB Controllers as a 'G3 HMI', then Crimson can download to it over the USB link.

 

[ATU]

The G3's are all flash ROM for data storage. There are no batteries in the HMI. The power loss should not have wiped the database.

 

[JHarbin]

The G3's are all flash ROM for data storage. There are no batteries in the HMI. The power loss should not have wiped the database.

I agree that it *shouldn't* lose its database but I have one site where I have 4 installed where we occasionally have lost databases after power outages. I am guessing that there is some kind of power surge that our surge supressors aren't taking care of but we haven't been able to determine the problem (yet).

We have well over 100 G3xx and DSPxx installed at many other locations and have never had this problem anywhere else.

 

[Ken Roach]

I think that surges or spikes associated with power outages are a very different circumstance from a slow battery discharge.

I've seen PLCs and related devices have memory failures when they were connected to battery power without a threshold cutoff relay.

In the handful of cases I was involved with, a cutoff relay at 21 volts solved the problem, with the added benefit of protecting the battery from over-discharge.

 

[JHarbin]

I think that surges or spikes associated with power outages are a very different circumstance from a slow battery discharge.

I've seen PLCs and related devices have memory failures when they were connected to battery power without a threshold cutoff relay.

In the handful of cases I was involved with, a cutoff relay at 21 volts solved the problem, with the added benefit of protecting the battery from over-discharge.

This is good information.

By the way - although I don't think this is *our* particular problem, Redlion told me that the database loss could be caused by low 24VDC power - somewhere around 15VDC. Clearly the OP probably had this problem when his batteries started to die.

 

[ais]

Thanks for all the input.
The download worked.