datacaptation... how to begin...

[Thim]

Hey Combo,

I a previous post of you i saw you wanted to communicate between Excel/csv and Plc through Opc server, Is this correct? Do you have it working?
Excel/csv is it only reading data from the plc or also writting?
If in both directions would it be possible to explain me how you did it ?

Thx

 

[userxyz]

reading

reading

Hey Combo,

I a previous post of you i saw you wanted to communicate between Excel/csv and Plc through Opc server, Is this correct? Do you have it working?
Excel/csv is it only reading data from the plc or also writting?
If in both directions would it be possible to explain me how you did it ?

Thx

 

[userxyz]

cost

The cost is indeed a problem..

Yeah, the IA guys do a good job with the demo. They make it pretty clear.

To mention some of the features that you would take advantage of, you get unlimited development time without buying the software (you just need to restart the license every two hours, similar to Kepware). And, you get unlimited tags, so you can plan your project anyway you want without worrying whether you will exceed 512, 1024, or whatever number of tags. I evlauated several packages last year (including Citect, Wonderware, WinCC, and InduSoft), and there just wasn't a comparison.

IA wouldn't make sense for a small stand-alone machine due to cost, but it is perfect for collecting data, not to mention that adding client GUIs couldn't be easier (no software to install). Give it a try.

 

[userxyz]

S7guy

Okay, but

Let's say I go for IA...

Factory SQL, does it has the OPC driver to communicate with my SIemens PLC's or do I need the kepware server ? Is MSSQL Server Express really needed if I buy FactorySQL ?

Hmm, If I only need FactorySQL, then for 1995 dollars I'm done...

I can think of a dozen ways that would be better and cheaper than WinCC (unless your company has a spec where you have to use only Siemens products).

Take a look at Inductive Automation. Put their software and a Kepware OPC Server on your server, install MSSQL Server Express (free), and you can log whatever you want. I wouldn't want to be logging to flat files anyway.

 

[surferb]

1. You'd need an OPC Server - Kepserver EX is one of several options.
2. MSSQL Server Express is not necessary. You can use pretty much any SQL database. MySQL or PostgreSQL are both free. There are free (limited) versions of Oracle and SQL Server. You could even use MS Access if you want.

The point is that using an SQL database is a much better way to deal with data logging than flat (.CSV or text) files in general for many reasons. The usual list is:

1. Performance/scalability
2. Concurrent data access
3. Maintenance and backups
4. Interoperability

This video shows the steps to log data in a simple configuration. You can set it up with a free download.

The inevitable next step is displaying the data in the form of tables or graphs from any computer. That's what FactoryPMI is all about...

Okay, but

Let's say I go for IA...

Factory SQL, does it has the OPC driver to communicate with my SIemens PLC's or do I need the kepware server ? Is MSSQL Server Express really needed if I buy FactorySQL ?

Hmm, If I only need FactorySQL, then for 1995 dollars I'm done...

 

[userxyz]

Mssql

And let's say that I have SIMATIC NET, and I have AN OPC SERVER from siemens...

Can I link MSSQL to opc data then ?


Then amybe I do not need it anymore...

PS: IA is more expensive then the simatic net opc driver !!

1. You'd need an OPC Server - Kepserver EX is one of several options.
2. MSSQL Server Express is not necessary. You can use pretty much any SQL database. MySQL or PostgreSQL are both free. There are free (limited) versions of Oracle and SQL Server. You could even use MS Access if you want.

The point is that using an SQL database is a much better way to deal with data logging than flat (.CSV or text) files in general for many reasons. The usual list is:

1. Performance/scalability
2. Concurrent data access
3. Maintenance and backups
4. Interoperability

This video shows the steps to log data in a simple configuration. You can set it up with a free download.

The inevitable next step is displaying the data in the form of tables or graphs from any computer. That's what FactoryPMI is all about...

 

[surferb]

From the OPC Foundation web site -

SIMATIC NET is the name of an entire family of industrial communication networks and products by Siemens.

I think the Siemens OPC server would be the equivalent of KepServer EX in my example. If there's a piece in SIMATIC NET that does "SQL Data logging" go for it. I don't think "linking" applies here. Is that what you're looking for?

And let's say that I have SIMATIC NET, and I have AN OPC SERVER from siemens...

Can I link MSSQL to opc data then ?


Then amybe I do not need it anymore...

PS: IA is more expensive then the simatic net opc driver !!

 

[userxyz]

hmm

I don't understand,

what does the logging, FACTORYSQL or MSSQL ?

I was thinking that I needed an OPC server to link the PLC data to a PC and then MSSQL EXPRESS 2008 to do logging... I'm not really understanding this thing

From the OPC Foundation web site -

I think the Siemens OPC server would be the equivalent of KepServer EX in my example. If there's a piece in SIMATIC NET that does "SQL Data logging" go for it. I don't think "linking" applies here. Is that what you're looking for?

 

[surferb]

Think of it like this:
1. OPC Server = PLC "driver"
2. MSSQL is Microsoft SQL Server = database to store data
3. FactorySQL = data logging application / historian

SQL Server Express and MySQL are free databases. They don't know anything about PLCs, OPC, or data logging. They store data.

FactorySQL is a program that periodically reads from the PLC (via OPC server) and writes values to the SQL database.

I don't understand,

what does the logging, FACTORYSQL or MSSQL ?

I was thinking that I needed an OPC server to link the PLC data to a PC and then MSSQL EXPRESS 2008 to do logging... I'm not really understanding this thing

 

[userxyz]

okay

Okay, I understand it a lot better now

Thanks

Think of it like this:
1. OPC Server = PLC "driver"
2. MSSQL is Microsoft SQL Server = database to store data
3. FactorySQL = data logging application / historian

SQL Server Express and MySQL are free databases. They don't know anything about PLCs, OPC, or data logging. They store data.

FactorySQL is a program that periodically reads from the PLC (via OPC server) and writes values to the SQL database.

 

[rdrast]

98% of database logging involves three pieces.

A) The OPC (DDE) server to talk to the PLC
B) A 'Transaction Engine' that reads the data from the OPC server, packages, and sends it to the actual database
C) A Database Engine that stores the information

FactorySQL is the Transaction Engine, MSSQL is the actual database engine. What does the logging? Well, MSSQL (MySQL, Access (/shudder)) are only there to hold the data, and store and retrieve it efficiently. The Transaction manager is what actually CAUSES log records to be written to the database, usually either based on time, or an actual event.

Edit - One of the reasons to have a transaction manager, whether commercial, or rolled in VB, is to ensure that for every record written, ALL of the data is concurrent. That is, it refreshes all monitored PLC tags, and refreshes them all at one time before writing to the Database. That is an attempt to prevent 'Stale' data.

 

[surferb]

Well put rdrast.

 

[userxyz]

ok

Okay, I understand now

thanks a lot

98% of database logging involves three pieces.

A) The OPC (DDE) server to talk to the PLC
B) A 'Transaction Engine' that reads the data from the OPC server, packages, and sends it to the actual database
C) A Database Engine that stores the information

FactorySQL is the Transaction Engine, MSSQL is the actual database engine. What does the logging? Well, MSSQL (MySQL, Access (/shudder)) are only there to hold the data, and store and retrieve it efficiently. The Transaction manager is what actually CAUSES log records to be written to the database, usually either based on time, or an actual event.

Edit - One of the reasons to have a transaction manager, whether commercial, or rolled in VB, is to ensure that for every record written, ALL of the data is concurrent. That is, it refreshes all monitored PLC tags, and refreshes them all at one time before writing to the Database. That is an attempt to prevent 'Stale' data.

 

[rootboy]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw decapitation...

Same here. And here I was thinking that this was going to be such an interesting thread...