Denver Internation Baggage System

[PhilipW]

Ken is right. I've done some work for one of BAE's global competitors, and I'm saying it straight...a large fully automated airport baggage handling system is HUGELY more complex than you guys are thinking.

My reading of this fiasco is that BAE got caught out on the "bleeding edge" of what the technology of the time could do...and probably delivered a 99% result...but not a 100% one. What Denver needed to do was look around the world at any number of similar such systems installed by other suppliers in the game and learn from their successes.

These guys have done some majors with good results: Glidepath

 

[akreel]

My reading of this fiasco is that BAE got caught out on the "bleeding edge" of what the technology of the time could do...

So they probably found themselves installing serial number 1,2,3 and 4 of some new product line? I've been there before...

Baggage handling systems are, of course, loaded with conveyors. My experience with conveyor systems tells me that this was probably a logic and data communication heavy project. If they didn't have some good experience on the programming team, I imagine that the PLC code reads like a men's room wall.

Of course, anyone who goes in there now to clean up will probably come out a hero without having to do much. That kind of work must be great: bash the last guy on the job, tweak a few things, take the credit.

AK

 

[elevmike]

Ok so I've done some more reading on this. Apparently BAE is/was a Boeing company,(lots of smart people & resources). The general consensus seem to lay the blame at the feet of the planners. Apparently the Airport was not designed with a bagggage handeling system in mind. (Kinda like a car with no wheel wells). The baggage handeling issue was addressed as an "OH $HIT!" issue some TWO years after construction begin. Apparently this forced BAE to re-invent the wheel, due to the fact that there were no approperate accomidations for the conveyers etc..forcing issues such as 90 deg turns, verticals rather then ramps etc..

As with many public projects, the people with the last say are often elected officials; which dosent qualify them for much other then having a good line of bull and fund raising.

Proper Prior Planning Prevents Pi$$ Poor Performance.

 

[jstolaruk]

The baggage handeling issue was addressed as an "OH $HIT!" issue some TWO years after construction begin.

Wow, was someone asleep at the wheel or what?

It would have been a challenge (ie fun). Though you have to wonder if taking on a project and being 2 years "late" when you get the purchase order is worth it. You know the customer is going to be looking over your shoulder every second.

 

[akreel]

Wow, was someone asleep at the wheel or what?

That's not how I envision it.


I picture Young Engineer noticing that there was a shortage of baggage systems very early on in the project. Young Engineer says to Project Manager, "how does the baggage system work?"

PM laughs, "Silly intern. It's a complex system of pulleys and levers."

YE walks away, unsure if the message really got through.
A month later, YE says to his NEW Project Manager: "I really don't see how we're going to transfer the luggage from the plane to the terminal."

PM says "Why, the baggage handling system does that." YE assumes this must be the answer.

A few months later, YE addresses PM one more time. "The baggage handling system? We're still waiting for the customer to decide whether they want one. I assume we're painting it gray, but we're not quite sure." is the response.

Finally, after two years, the project status meeting erupts into a shouting match. "WHAT DO YOU MEAN, THERE IS NO BAGGAGE HANDLING SYSTEM?" demands the customer. YE sobs quitely to himself, realizing that the next few weekends are shot.

AK

 

[jstolaruk]

I'm thinking that the municipal authority was probably acting as the general contractor on the project, micro-managing it, and possibly because of lack of experience (how many airports would a city/county build in a lifetime) just totally forgot about it.

 

[Terry Woods]

Some time ago I saw a video showing the operation of the Baggage Handler.

They were pretty damned fast. Jeez... they had to be moving something like 30-MPH (or more).

I'm pretty sure that the carts were expected to hold only one bag (that's all I ever saw). The buckets on the carts were designed to tip sideways to unload the bag.

There were many cart tracks. There were transfer points (slides) between the tracks. The idea was that a bag starts on this track, get transferred to that track, etc, until it arrived at it's destination.

I think there were some places were a cart would do a direct transfer to another cart... not sure... can't remember.

The plan was for the cart to carry a bag to a transfer point and then unload the bag onto the transfer slide. The bag would then be loaded onto another cart... etc, etc.

So... the video...

The cart comes flying down the track. As it approches the transfer point, without slowing down, the bucket is flung over very quickly... the bag goes flying sorta, kinda, toward the transfer slide. Some bags hit the side of the on-coming transfer slide and fell on the floor. Others flew over the transfer slide and fell on the floor. Some got pinched between the bucket and the side of the transfer slide (bag destroyed). And yes, occasionally, now and then, one would actually make it.

The problem was NOT data management.

The problem was knowing how to design for, and handle, the different bag weights, shapes and sizes (Hat Box vs. Golf Clubs or Bowling Ball?).

The carts always ran fast through the transfer points. The bucket tipped with the same force (speed) regardless of load weight. Tipping was initiated at the same point. The mouth of any transfer point was too small.

All of this added up to something similar to Annie Oakley standing on the back of a horse and shooting at a target... while the horse was running at full gallop! She was very successful! She could make judgements and adjustments as she approached the target.

If there were cart-to-cart transfers then the problem became much worse!
(Try throwing a donut from your car window into the window of an on-coming car... at 60-MPH relative!... then try a bowling ball, then a feather. In any case, yer gonna pi$$-off the on-coming driver!)

Apparently, the baggage handler was not designed to make judgements on the fly. It appeared that the programmer(s) thought he(they) could thread-the-needle, on the fly, without the need for any flexibility... only strict timing... regardless of load.

Try throwing a feather, then a baseball, then a bowling ball... all with the same force. What would you expect to have happen?

Aside from the initial cause of the fault, if bags were lost or misdirected, it was the fault of the crew that was running around picking up the fallen bags. Apparently, they did not have a way to re-queue a mis-queued bag. So they had to try to figure out where the bag belonged... sometimes they were right... sometimes they were wrong... and your bag ended up in Timbuktu... uh, gee... sorry 'bout dat!

There wasn't much they could do about the destroyed bags... except, maybe, go through them and see if there was anything worth keeping.

It's one thing to perform Data Management... basically math. It's quite another thing to perform Motion Control... again, basically math, however, Motion Control is subject to those rigidly unforgiving Laws of Physics!

Reality Check...
Don't fight the Laws of Physics... they are the only reason that you can maintain your cool and hold your place on a bar-stool... but then, of course, the laws being what they are, everything goes to hell when you get up to take a leak.

 

[elevmike]

The problem was NOT data management.

The problem was knowing how to design for, and handle, the different bag weights, shapes and sizes (Hat Box vs. Golf Clubs or Bowling Ball?).

That was my impression entirely.