Heathrow Terminal 5 baggage system

[PeterW]

Seems it wasn't sufficiently tested...

It's been commissioned for at least 18 months and then a six month period of excessive testing. Using test bags not 'lost bags from other terminals' as mentioned in one of the Telegraph posters comments

 

[uptown47]

very unlikely, they use SICK BCR's, as used all over the world, very reliable.

I don't think they were intimating the actual BCR's were down... more that the 360 deg scanning station that they've installed doesn't work correctly. Maybe the amount of luggage piled on top of each other etc is blocking the bar code labels ?????

 

[PeterW]

I don't think they were intimating the actual BCR's were down... more that the 360 deg scanning station that they've installed doesn't work correctly. Maybe the amount of luggage piled on top of each other etc is blocking the bar code labels ?????

90% of the BCR's are 360 deg scanning stations. The only ones that don't are entrances to and on tray sorters.

But agree, bags on top of each other can be a bit of a set-back.

 

[uptown47]

But agree, bags on top of each other can be a bit of a set-back.

Maybe this is what they mean when they were talking about a lack of training. Perhaps the training included instructions on how to "present" the luggage to the conveyor so that it would pass correctly through the scanners etc..?

 

[curlyandshemp]

It's been commissioned for at least 18 months and then a six month period of excessive testing. Using test bags not 'lost bags from other terminals' as mentioned in one of the Telegraph posters comments

Do you know if they used their own people for testing, or run through simulated passenger exercises?
The new T1 @ Toronto's Pearson advertised for volunteer passengers to give the new terminal a shake down. Apparently they ran several of these tests over a period of months, each time correcting issues noted by the volunteers on exit interviews. Too bad they negelected the parking arcade in these tests, as that garage is confusing as h*ll.

I take comfort in reading stories such as this when I have a new PLC/Scada system crash on the first production runs. Then get all the 'why is this happening?, did not you guys test this?"

 

[PeterW]

Do you know if they used their own people for testing, or run through simulated passenger exercises?
The new T1 @ Toronto's Pearson advertised for volunteer passengers to give the new terminal a shake down. Apparently they ran several of these tests over a period of months, each time correcting issues noted by the volunteers on exit interviews. Too bad they negelected the parking arcade in these tests, as that garage is confusing as h*ll.

I take comfort in reading stories such as this when I have a new PLC/Scada system crash on the first production runs. Then get all the 'why is this happening?, did not you guys test this?"

When I left they had reached a stage where they were daily running 'dummy' flights, testing 1000+ bags each time. Not everywhere was completed at that time.

I believe they did have volunteer passangers, reading the comments on the newspapers, some people have said they were part of that.

I believe everything was complete by last October and since then they have been testing the system, I was also under the impression that they would have some small real flights before the big opening, don't know if that ever happened.

There's no real information on what has gone wrong, it is only the first few days though and some of the higher level systems are quite complex.

I've read silly things, like the check-in staff not knowing how to use the system. I would have thought over the last 6 months they would have run test flights with the real people who were going to use it.

Unless they come out and say what the problems are though everyone is just guessing, I feel annoyed though reading the comments people have written in the newspapers.

 

[bkottaras]

After having to fly in and out of Heathrow close to the holidays (19th of December of 2007, 5th of January 2008) and having experienced what people mentioned about the new T5 (most of the stuff don't know anything, even simple questions as to which line to be in to get to a connecting flight and such, no stuff at all at times, Heathrow was/is on top of my permanent "NO FLY" list.

 

[JohnW]

It said on the news tonight that the baggage handlers couldn't get the bags onto the planes quick enough, BA have been kicking their ground staff about for years and now they are getting their revenge!

 

[parky]

The company i used to work for did the scada system for gatwick.

The PLC's were siemens S5 (at that time) the scada systems were factorylink, I know there were over 15,000 distributed alarms & our guys worked on it (including updates) for a couple of years.

I don't think there were many problems & i guess that terminal 5 would have been siemens, like lots of things there are many companies involved in the build, even the people who write the functional design spec can be an independant company, I heard that some of these FDs's are costed at millions, one we received was about 50 pages long cost over £250,000 & resembled a colender (full of holes), to be honest we could of written the same thing for a few thousand.
It was an auwful spec which we challenged constantly, I guess that we really wrote the final document as so much had to be changed i.e. the FDS was re-written to match the code & real requirements.

 

[504bloke]

Not T5, unless of course they are trying to steal credit from a Dutch firm that built the conveyors and desgned the control.

No it wasnt T5, think it was manchester but i may be mistaken, like i said the bar was open

 

[PeterW]

No it wasnt T5, think it was manchester but i may be mistaken, like i said the bar was open

They did do Manchester, they have a head office in Manchester where I worked a couple of times. I went for an interview for the airport job and ended up working on a nuclear one .

 

[plcsoftvsd]

As per CNN the manpower was not enough...!!

God save the programmer..please don't make him lift bags....

 

[_Woody_]

Probably the same old problem..
Customer: "Can the system walk on water?"
Salesman: "Yes, no problem at all"

..Back at the office
Salesman to Programmer: "By the way.. I promised the customer the system would walk on water. Have a nice weekend, see you on Monday".

I'm reminded of the polar bear problem - The salesman is out in the ice, snow & sleet all day long trudging around, the engineer is nice & cosy in the cabin by the fire. The salesman in the ice & snow comes accross a polar bear - slaps it as hard as he can accross the back of the head & runs like hell. When he gets to the cabin, he bursts through the front door looks at the engineer and shouts "POLAR BEAR!!!" runs out the back door & locks it.

 

[pouch]

System working too well

Besides the usual British Airways incompetence and arrogance I believe, having worked on a couple of baggage systems, that the control system did what it was supposed to do. The problem comes when the interface between the system and the operatives is encountered.

The baggage system may have been exhaustively tested but the baggage handlers were transferred from the other terminal as T5 opened. So, coupled with the unfamiliarity of the terminal, not being able to get your car parked, cannot log into the system and then having to load the aircraft baggage containers (a hand balling operation) catastrophe, as only these BA managers can conjure.

What I find even more amazing is that they couldn't even get the arrivals bags to the passengers. This is a case of throwing the bags onto a conveyor to be deposited on to a carousel!

Regards

Paul.

 

[PeterW]

What I find even more amazing is that they couldn't even get the arrivals bags to the passengers. This is a case of throwing the bags onto a conveyor to be deposited on to a carousel!

They rely on being told which carousel onto which to drop the bags. They have hand scanners that read the tag off a bag and they should then be told the drop point. If these failed for whatever reason the tug would have no idea where to go.