differential pressure transmitter for sewage and air

Charbel

Member
Join Date
Jan 2012
Location
Beirut
Posts
307
Dear,

rosemount 3051C is being used to measure level on a pressure vessel for sewage. One probe is on the air side and one probe is on the sewage side.

i was checking rosemount 3051C datasheet they are using an isolating diaphragm which is embedded in the sensor/transmitter.

do we need to add anything for it in order to work properly or is it fine as it is?

thank you!

charbel
 
It looks like the diaphragm can be mounted in contact with the sewage. I'd strongly suggest that you contact your supplier for recommendations on fluid fill and diaphragm materials.

I am constantly surprised by the reluctance of so many of the posters on this forum to contact the equipment supplier for information. That's what the supplier gets paid for - the service is in the price so you may as well use it!
 
Dear,

Thank you for your reply, but i am from the consultant side :).... so i am trying to see if this acceptable.

Good day,

charbel
 
Dear Osmanmomin,

Still i dont know what you are referring to...
Are you replying to the wrong post? Here we are discussing something else.

I am not expecting this kind of conversation to be happening in this kind of forum.

I am feeling part of a big family loving what i really love (controls and instrumentation)

good day
 
Differential pressure transmitters have two pressure ports. The pressure ports are connected to the process with piping or tubing, called impulse piping/tubing. The ports and the connection piping/tubing are not technically 'probes', they're the process connection(s) for the transfer of pressure to the transmitter's pressure heads.

When the low side port is connected to the vapor/air pressure above the liquid, the effect of the applied air pressure is subtracted out and the result is the hydrostatic head pressure of the liquid column.

The problem with sewage is that it is sewage with solids. The sewage solids can clog the pressure ports inside the transmitter and clog the impulse tubing resulting in slow response or even no response due to blocked pressure transfer through the tubing.

Diaphragm seals are used to isolate the process medium, sewage, from the measurement device. The diaphragm has a relatively large exposure area. The connection between the diaphragm seal and the transmitter is a capillary tube, filled with fluid, which transfers the pressure from the diaphragm to the process heads. Filling seals requires hard vacuum evacuation and back-filling the fluid, a skilled task and is done by vendors who specialize in it. It is not typically (if ever) done at the plant level is the USA.

Diaphragm seals some issues. The biggest issue is that a pressure transmitter with diaphragm seals is also a temperature transmitter, because it is a 'filled system', which by Boyles or Charles law changes pressure with temperature changes. There is no compensation for the temperature effect on pressure. It's error.

With dual diaphragm seals, the hope and prayer is that both capillaries are at the same temperature so that the effect of temperature related pressure change on the high side cancels the effect of temperature related pressure change on the low. Rarely does that happen. The best results are inside temperature controlled buildings, the worst results are outdoors where sunlight or shadow can substantially affect the temperature of the capillary tubing.

When the medium, sewage, can solidify or crust up against the exposed diaphragm a flushing ring is installed between the mounting flange and the diaphragm seal flange. The flush ring has a threaded port which can be piped and valved to a source of flushing water to clean away deposits and solidification.

The weight of the fill fluid in the capillaries is part of the hydrostatic measurement. That means that the range of the DP transmitter with dual capillary seals has an LRV (lower range value, what the 4.0mA value represents) that is large negative number. Those unfamiliar with capillary seals do not expect that and can get a unit that will zero or span across the range needed for capillary seal measurement. Pmin and Pmax can be calculated with arithmetic, as the illustration below shows.

2zgahwl.jpg


Vendor specs or 'engineering guide' for remote seals have a table of fill fluid specific gravities.

Specific gravity of the 'solution' that changes over time will produce a proportional error in any hydrostatic head measurement, it's the nature of the beast.

Diaphragm seals are 60 year old technology. An experienced vendor can get the right unit and at correct right range, and I'd even have them range it at the factory, because ranging dual seal capillary DP's is not hard, but there's a lot of misunderstanding at the local level about how to calculate the LRV-URV range.

My suggestion is that you use draw out the tank, its dimensions, the mounting points, the maximum level and calculate the range yourself. Then inquire of vendors as to an appropriate model AND what range they calculate for this specific application. If the vendor doesn't get the right range, find another vendor (sometimes DP level gets shuffled to the entry level new hire who doesn't know)

The attached ISA DP flange level and DP remote seal spec sheets both lack the critically needed area for a drawing.
 
When I think of a tank with wastewater (a term preferred to "sewage" in the industry) I usually think of a concrete tank, not a metal one with flanges etc.

I've used these types of pressure transmitters with success on wastewater and even sludge digesters:
http://www.kelleramerica.com/product_family_sheets/Submersible Overview.pdf

http://www.dwyer-inst.com/Product/Level/LevelTransmitters/Submersible/SeriesPBLT2-PBLTX

These simply sit in the bottom of the tank - no piping needed. As Dan says, the big concern with wastewater is solids accumulation - both the solids in the wastewater and biological films that grow on everything.
 
I'll second Tom's recommendation for submersible head pressure transmitters for open tank (well or pit) level measurement over remote seal DP's any day. Lower cost, no temp error and relatively easy to install.

The OP did mention a 'pressure vessel' in the first post. If it's truly pressurized then some vapor/air pressure compensation is needed.

Submersibles use a small flexible vent tube (enclosed in the cable assembly) to reference atmosphere for a gauge pressure measurement.

I've never tried to connect a submersible's vent tube to anything other than leaving it open to atmosphere, so doing level on a pressurized vessel with a submersible might be moving into new territory as to how the low side vent connection would function.
 

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