drag racing tree

[helmjama]

well i was hopeing to just make a simple setup to to make it more automated instead of having someone drop a flag at the start and to have a person at the end to tell who won. but some of my fellow atv'ers what to have it give them times. will the dl06 be able to handle the timing functions. im guessing the fastest time in the 300 foot would be around 3 seconds and the majority would be around 6 or slower. also how would you store or send out the data from it on the times? i was thinking some how import it to excell or something of that nature.

 

[milldrone]

well i was hopeing to just make a simple setup to to make it more automated instead of having someone drop a flag at the start and to have a person at the end to tell who won. but some of my fellow atv'ers what to have it give them times.

This is what systems integrators call "feature creep".

will the dl06 be able to handle the timing functions.

Maybe, what is the accuracy desired?

also how would you store or send out the data from it on the times? i was thinking some how import it to excell or something of that nature.

What is your budget?

 

[helmjama]

well accuracy isnt really big i dont think we would need to go past a tenth of a second. i havent seen races that close around here.

as for budget well as cheap as posible you can buy ready to go systems from four to ten grand. i was thinking could posibly get this thrown togetthere for around 1200 to 2grand.

 

[milldrone]

well accuracy isnt really big i dont think we would need to go past a tenth of a second. i havent seen races that close around here.

In my first post on this thread I suggested a high speed timer setup. If this is all the resolution you need then Brian123 was right and I was wrong. Before we go any farther we need to make sure that you understand the difference between accuracy and resolution. Accuracy would be how close the timing matches the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). Resolution would be how small of a difference in time the PLC can measure. At this point .01 seconds is possible with a DL06 and standard hardware. But there are other variables that affect the accuracy. The response time of the inputs to the PLC are 2 - 8 ms with 4 ms being typical (ms = .001 seconds). The photo eyes that you use will also have some response delay. What this means is, these response delays make a comparison between the NIST and the PLC to be different. But all of the participants will be measured equally (presuming you use the same photo eyes for each lane ect.)

as for budget well as cheap as posible you can buy ready to go systems from four to ten grand. i was thinking could posibly get this thrown togetthere for around 1200 to 2grand.

There are too many variables in just the starting tree lights alone for me to hazard a guess as to what you will have left over for PLC hardware / software and OPC software.

I'm guessing you will be using this gear in full daylight and this means high brightness lighting. Amber and red automotive led style lighting is easy to find but green is another matter. It's not hard for me to imagine that the price of the light tree alone could be between $10 to $1000 or more. All depending on your creativity and resourcefulness. So for instance if you can do the tree for $10 (junkyard wars?) there would be room for an eithernet module and some opc software to get your info into excel.

Edit: I do not want to be reading about how someone just stole some traffic lights!!!!!!

 

[OkiePC]

well accuracy isnt really big i dont think we would need to go past a tenth of a second. i havent seen races that close around here.

as for budget well as cheap as posible you can buy ready to go systems from four to ten grand. i was thinking could posibly get this thrown togetthere for around 1200 to 2grand.

That is definitely do-able. You should be able to get accuracy to around a couple hundredths of a second with most any ordinary PLC.

The biggest hassle will be running a cable the length of the track to pick up the finish line sensors. You might be able to go wireless (at the high end of your budget) but that will certainly affect accuracy...unless you put the plc at the far end and the start line was the wireless node.

Paul

 

[Brian123]

Edit: I do not want to be reading about how someone just stole some traffic lights!!!!!!

Milldrone, you read my mind

If an excel spreadsheet is not necessary, one of ADs cheaper HMIs would work for time readouts, reseting the system, etc.

I was looking at the CTRIO cards earlier. You could use two of them to provide accurate timing for the lanes; those are capable of microsecond timing. But if tenths or hundredths is sufficient accuracy, then all it is adding is cost. As you can see, this is why it is important to get your system specifications nailed down before diving in. With the minimum requirement of tenths-of-a-second accuracy, standard PLC hardware should be sufficient.

He will have to pay attention to which inputs he wires the sensors to. The DL-05 and 06 have faster responding inputs at points 0-3. You could end up making one lane have a couple millisecond advantage over the other. It shouldn't be a problem, just one more thing to think about when designing the system.

As for the lights, I don't know if you can get outdoor flood lights (the kind you use to light up your backyard) in colors. If you can, a light tree might be fairly reasonable in cost.

Brian

 

[milldrone]

As for the lights, I don't know if you can get outdoor flood lights (the kind you use to light up your backyard) in colors. If you can, a light tree might be fairly reasonable in cost.

Brian

Now there's an example of creativity I had not thought of!!!!

If an excel spreadsheet is not necessary,

There is a way to get data from a DL06 into a spreadsheet for no extra cost, but it's not automatic or friendly.

Just make several Data views with the appropriate Vmems V1510 to V2327 in my example below. Right click on the first one, save all. Right click on the second, save all ect. ect.

This will save them as CSV files then just open them in excel or Open Office.

Below is my version, it stores 100 races, 4 Vmems to a race, reaction time for left and right lanes and elapsed time for left and right lanes. It's only 98 words (under the 100 word limit!!) The monic is in notepad, I'm at a computer without winzip.

 

[helmjama]

wow milldrone thats awesome. i was reading threw that and how many sensors are you using at the starting line.

you have
x4 right staged
x5 left staged
i would call these two as a prestage

x6 right jumped
x7 left jumped
i would call these the stage sensors

x10 right finsh line
x11 left finish line
i understand those

x12 starters button
what does this do is it like an over ride

x14 erase stored times
so i just need a button to hit to reset the times simple as that

 

[Brian123]

Milldrone, here's a link describing the timing of the lights and the functions of the wheel sensors at the start.

http://www.nhra.com/basics/basics.html

I could understand a psuedo-random delay after either the drivers are staged or after the start button is pushed, but I don't think the delays for the tree lights should be random.

If you need to have a readout of the times at the track, you may need a small HMI for display. If you have an HMI, you could use it instead of hardwired buttons for the start and reset.

Brian

 

[milldrone]

Well, you learn something every day.


Question: If the system relies on the starting line beam being blocked. What is to prevent a racer from doing something to keep the beam blocked for some distance after the front tire? Or does the prestage beam need to made before a vehicle is considered staged even if the staged beam is broken?

 

[helmjama]

milldrone if yours works that might be the way to go. ok im going to try to walk threw the process on this you just have one sensor preside for the starting line. so when the stage lights are on some one has to hit the start button or is it going to just go at some point. if it even needs a starter thats not so bad. i think your way might work better for us. that will lower the cost on sensors to so thats a plus.


also point me in a direction for an hmi for use with this system.

 

[milldrone]

milldrone if yours works that might be the way to go.

Whoa! Brian123 just pointed out several problems with what I posted.

ok im going to try to walk threw the process on this you just have one sensor preside for the starting line. so when the stage lights are on some one has to hit the start button or is it going to just go at some point. if it even needs a starter thats not so bad. i think your way might work better for us. that will lower the cost on sensors to so thats a plus.

Are you saying you want to not follow the info here http://www.nhra.com/basics/basics.html and you just want to use just 4 photo eyes total, two start and two finish?

If this is what you want. Would the order of events be something like this?

Operation without a starter person

1. Press "erase races" push button ( this will erase some previous races)
2. Auto/man selector switch in auto
3. First vehicle pulls up to starting photo eye beam and breaks beam, then his staged beam will light up
4. Second vehicle pulls up to starting photo eye beam and breaks beam, then his staged beam will light up .
5. A timer starts, after the timer times out the starting tree will sequence.
6. If a racer's starting photo eye beam is made before the green light then a redlight will turn on.
7. The first racer to cross the finish line photo beam will get a win light in his lane. This win light will stay on for X amount of time.
8. The moment the win light turns off the reaction times, and the elapsed times will be recorded. For the sake of simplicity no race can be started until the win light goes off. If two more racers are already staged then the timer mentioned in #5 will start and another race will begin shortly. If only one racer crosses the finish line, the moment the win light turns off whatever the time is for the other lane (looser) plus the reaction time will also be recorded. So it might have zero reaction time or whatever reaction time the loosers elapsed time will be the winners elapsed time plus the win light duration. If a zero is needed here the program might be more than 100 words but it can be done.
6. The tree will consist of two staged lights (one for each lane), three yellows a green light, a red light for each lane.


The operation with a starter person can be the same with a few exceptions the times can be recorded for the previous race the moment the starter presses the button for the next race (this will allow for a very slow contestant that otherwise would not have the chance to cross the finish line before the win light times out).

also point me in a direction for an hmi for use with this system.

Have you thought about what will be needed to see a laptop's screen or a HMI screen in full daylight? Think about what a football referee has to do to look at an instant replay when he is on the field.

Here are Automation Direct's offerings.
http://web1.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Operator_Interfaces/C-more_Touch_Panels/C-more_Touch_Panels_(all_sizes)
http://web1.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Operator_Interfaces/C-more_Micro-Graphic_Panels/C-more_Micro-Graphic_Panels_-a-_Keypad_Bezels_(all_types)
Here is some software that runs on a PC that acts as a HMI
http://web1.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Operator_Interfaces/Lookout_Direct_HMI
Here is a small screen that snaps into the front of the DL06.
http://web1.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/DirectLogic_Series_PLCs_(Micro_to_Small,_Brick_-a-_Modular)/DirectLogic_06_(Expandable_Micro_Brick_PLC)/PLC_Units/D0-06LCD Most people think that this unit is very hard to work with. Because the programming is in the PLC for this display you will exceed the 100 word limit.

Previously I mentioned a way to get data out of the PLC. In order to do this you will need a "structured" list of racers so you can compare the PLC data to the list.

 

[milldrone]

helmjama,

Here is a line of outdoor high briteness displays that can be seen from a distance.
http://flash.ezautomation.net/ezmarquee/pdfs/ezmar.h.out_spec1L10C.pdf
The models that would interface the easiest are also less expensive EZMRH-1L10C-OUT, EZMR-1L10C-OUT, EZMT-1L10C-OUT.

They also have HMI's
http://flash.ezautomation.net/new2.htm

 

[helmjama]

well ill look into these things we might just set it up to run with out the times just to see how well it works we can always add that on later. so that would mean your program would work now and later so thats cool. thanks for all your help so far ill see if we are going to get this rolling or not.


so that your auto man switch is a toggle switch then and you put that so its on all the time and the timer for the winner is what resets every thing.

 

[milldrone]

well ill look into these things we might just set it up to run with out the times just to see how well it works we can always add that on later.

Sounds like a plan.

so that would mean your program would work now and later so thats cool.

In reviewing the program and testing I discovered a flaw. The rear wheels are also "snapping" the times

so that your auto man switch is a toggle switch then and you put that so its on all the time and the timer for the winner is what resets every thing.

I have made a few changes. One thing to keep in mind as you are setting up the PLC and programming is that you may have to change normally open contacts with normally closed contacts. This is because through beam and retroreflective photo eyes do not always have a switch to change their output. I have written the program so that the output from the photo eye is on when the vehicle is detected.