Experienced Programmer Salary - Informal Survey

[RMA]

Never mind the $100 +, I'd be happy enough with your CD-collection (not to mention the odd bottle of Oz Shiraz)!

 

[jvdcande]

Ha... Yeah they'll agree you are priceless too, until it comes time to put a number on priceless.

Here the number seems to be about 25€/hr (for the employee) and half of it disappears in the government pockets before it even reaches me...

 

[Andrew_Miky]

Are you insane

BobB r you insane. Do you have no respect for experence oldiees. Sucessful person look only sweet if he has manner.

 

[Bitmore]

Worth Enough

I've been around some years. Resume has Newport News Crains and Municipal Water and Sewer works from east to west, and I quit counting energy plants. What am I worth? I am worth what you will pay me. That is the way it all works when it comes to "pay".
What have you done? What can you do for me? These were the questions asked of me. Ultimately they were the questions of my accomplishments and their expectations.
In answer to your question,, what is my worth?,, when each of us who endevor to CONTROL things must ask the only question I have ever faced, that we ALL must face,,,,,,, Do I understand the Process?
Then, do I know my prospective employer and his needs? Can I fill his needs?
Employers want to know certain things about your experience and training and how your "Joining the Team" will be a solution to their needs, don't worry about how much your worth UNTILL an enployer shows an interest! Show an INTEREST in them first, heck if nothing else, you will impress them with your knowledge of their company, and ultimately their needs!
I guess I'm just worth what I'm paid, and perhaps some gratification of accomplishment.
'nuff said

 

[HJTRBO]

BobB r you insane. Do you have no respect for experence oldiees. Sucessful person look only sweet if he has manner.

We have a strong and risky sense of humour down here in Oz. No one likes working with a bunch of straights mate, dont you think?

 

[Bitmore]

Don't give 'em no heads up mate, he'll still be wondering why he didn't get the contract an' you did!

 

[BobB]

One thing you learn when you get old and 'experienced' is you do not take s**t from anyone. There is far more tolerance for a 'grumpy old b*****d' than there is for a 'grumpy young b*****d'. They all try to placate me these days - it is really quite funny.
Next meeting I walk out on will not be the first when all that is being discussed is 'drivel'.
Walked out on my biggest customer one day as I had work to do and no time for beating around the bush. Funny thing is the work was for them and the project was way behind because they changed things when the control panels were just about complete - had to re-design and re-build - no extra money of course but they do pay well!

 

[DwSoFt]

so how does one of us young inexperienced *******s get experience? i agree that you must first understand the process and what you are tryingto accomplish, before you can successfully program it.i was offered a position,but its a cut in pay (half) from my current position. (electrical foreman) and i cant afford to drop that low as ihave a family to feed. but yeah we need to find good ppl to replace the older guys when they retire. i wish i could find a good older guy to teach me, as i am willing to learn,and i catch on quickly. in the meantime, ill just keep learning on my own, and learning from on here.lol

 

[BobB]

I learned everything from the ground up. Served an apprenticeship as an electrical fitter, had to go and fix machines with no drawings and half a factory of people sitting around and costing a fortune - speed was essential, built control panels, designed control systems, designed HV transformers (with a supervising transformer engineer), wound motors, went and did selected courses on temperature measurement and lots of other things. Unfortunately there are very few companies around these days that can offer this type of experience for a trade certificate - most appear to 'specialise' in selected areas and do not cover the whole.
Basically I knew a heck of a lot about control systems from my 5 year apprenticeship. Then did an electronics course - left the trade and did a business and marketing management degree and stayed in management and sales for 25 years.
Had to learn basic PLC programming as I had to sell the things - step controllers for a start.
Then took on a control system design and programming role for one of my former customers. All self taught to be honest with the assistance of a few basic PLC courses and a heavy background in fully wired control systems and service and maintenance.
I guess these days I would look for a maintenance job where PLCs are used extensively and there is an opportunity to learn from others, and courses.
One of the annoyances I have is someone who has done all the courses on programming and has no practical experience or understanding of basic control systems and programs something up with all the 'whizz bang' functions without for regard for safety and interlocking.
Another annoyance is the fact that most of the jobs advertised require the applicants to 'have a piece of paper' also without regard to the above - the piece of paper quite often is the only thing that seems to matter.
It is extraordinarily difficult to find companies that cover the 'whole' these days as most tend to 'specialise'. I know of apprentices who come out of their apprenticeship and the only thing they know is how to put up cable tray and run wires on the tray because that is all they have ever been taught. The remainder of the stuff they have learned at college is not much use to them usually as there has been no practical experience with what they have learned.

 

[Milosns84]

It is extraordinarily difficult to find companies that cover the 'whole' these days as most tend to 'specialise'. I know of apprentices who come out of their apprenticeship and the only thing they know is how to put up cable tray and run wires on the tray because that is all they have ever been taught. The remainder of the stuff they have learned at college is not much use to them usually as there has been no practical experience with what they have learned.

From my experience all companies tend to specialise for something in time. I was lucky that I ended up with company that did HVAC systems so I had a chance to learn great deal about that stuff.

 

[BobB]

I was lucky I guess - came up in an era where we had to learn everything.
In a previous life when I was working for a company with 30-50 employees, doing control work, main switch boards, site installation and commissioning I was asked to have a look at a couple of young guys who had been to school to learn programming to help me with controls design and eventually perhaps programming and commissioning. I set them a few fairly simple tasks - draw a star-delta starter circuit - draw a latching stop/start DOL starter circuit with an external emergency stop and a few others. Not one of the 3 could do either - very basic controls stuff.
I was quite concerned about what they had been taught as if they did not know very simple circuits like that how were they going to program them in a PLC?
They knew how to do lots of calculations and stuff but none of the basics. They were also electrical tradesmen who allegedly also knew controls.
To the poster I really think you should learn all these simple control circuits as a basic starter.

 

[Tom Jenkins]

Compensation depends on many things - some industries and locales pay better, some worse. Some skills pay better than others - motion control isn't the same as process control isn't the same as HVAC. Being and old **** increases pay, but only up to a certain point. There is the supply and demand factor, etc. etc.

Monster.com and Control Engineering magazine and others have online salary surveys. They aren't definitive, but give you a place to start.

Like the other old Pfhaart I learned controls and automation on my own and the hard way. I have a mechanical engineering degree, but I didn't let my education get in the way of getting a job done. Had my own business, got tired of running it, and am now semi-retired (my wife jokes I've cut way back on my work - down to a little over 40 hours per week nowadays!). Consulting, teaching, trying to commercialize a new concept, keeping as busy as I want to be. No corporate bean counters to quash, no stupid reports to write, no longer betting the house every time I bid a job.

Message: money is nice, but it isn't everything. Look for more than that when you pick your work.

 

[OkiePC]

BobB r you insane. Do you have no respect for experence oldiees. Sucessful person look only sweet if he has manner.

We have a strong and risky sense of humour down here in Oz. No one likes working with a bunch of straights mate, dont you think?

I agree. If you are good at what you do, being ****y outspoken and full of stories is frosting on the cake. Give me the colorful @sshole over the politically correct yawner any day.

 

[BobB]

(my wife jokes I've cut way back on my work - down to a little over 40 hours per week nowadays!).

Mine reckons I have cut back to just 7 days x 12 hours now! Know what you mean. Trouble is a challenge is dropped in the basket and cutting back goes out the door.

No corporate bean counters to quash, no stupid reports to write, no longer betting the house every time I bid a job.

How good is that - best thing about being independent - no brown noses, back stabbers and all that sort of things as well - I am sure you will all know what I mean.

Give me the colorful @sshole over the politically correct yawner any day.

Definately a man after my own heart!

 

[DwSoFt]

Message: money is nice, but it isn't everything. Look for more than that when you pick your work.

i agree.im not after the money in this job, altho the money will be better when i have expereience. i want to be a programmer because i find it interesting. controlling things isfun. i have designed and sucessfully installed many of my own relay based control systems. just lookin to take the next step.