Fasteners in steel with powder actuated gun

leitmotif

Member
L
Join Date
Nov 2004
Location
Seattle Wa. USA
Posts
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Looking for some hands on user's experience setting steel bolts into steel using powder actuated gun.

The PLAN
1. Set chiller into place and get lined up.
2. Shoot fastener thru the "bottom flange" of chiller frame and into steel support frame
3. Place nut and torque

I think 3/8 - 16 (National Coars) should suffice with about 10 on two sides of chiller on about 8 inch centers.

Chiller bottom flange is sheet metal approx 1/16" thick. Steel foundation / frame is 1/2" thick.

Problems I fear
1. If I shoot thru both the chiller frame and into the steel foundadion I will anchor the chiler with just the bolt (shank size that goes into the steel frame is approx 0.2 inch and bolt size is 3/8")
2. If I read Hilti catalogue correct I can only torque these up to 10 foot lbs WITH max recommended penetration.
3. I may not be able to shoot anchor in at a 90 degree angle due to constructin of chller frame so this may all be for naught.
Will of course consult Hilti next week.

QUESTIONS
Does anyone know of system that will shoot larger bolts?
What is your field experience
Should I go this way?
Would I be better off with using a stud weldor
OR do I really gotta drill all them damn holes?

Dan Bentler
 
Dan,

Consider self-drilling/self-tapping machine threaded screws. Since your back material (the frame) is 1/2" thick you souldnt need a nut. But you might want to use a lock on the bolt. Larger bolts may require the use of an impact wrench to finsih the thread & torque the bolt.
 
3/8" studs with a Hilti Gun?

I have a lot of experience with 1/4"-20 studs.
Never saw anything larger in a powder actuated tool.
If you use the red colored load at max power it should penetrate through both the 1/16" and into the 1/2".
The problem is that the stud and plastic guide washer act more as a nail and prevent you from removing the unit apart from breaking off the hardened steel studs with a hammer. You might as well weld it down.
Better to layout your mounts first, no problem with having the clearances around the tool to fire properly. (If you can't shoot 90 perpendicular the Hilti tool will not allow you to fire it.)
Then layout the mounting holes and drill them to be larger than the stud but smaller than a washer O.D. for that size to give some room for error.
This is assuming you have a means of lifting the unit an inch or so to carefully set down on studs. If this is not possible and the reason to try to shoot through both, then go with the self tapping or drill and tap method.

And Yes be very careful not to over-torque the nuts. You might want to use a torque wrench on the first few or better yet drive a stud into the base in a discreet area and see how much torque you can apply to that stud at that power into that surface. If you can't pull it out by overcranking with a wrench then hit it on the side sharply with a hammer and it will break off fairly cleanly (please be wearing safety glasses during all Hilti gun operations and hearing protection)
Good Luck,
Brian
 
Last edited:
Brian and Mike

Thank you very much for the feed back. YOu have addressed all my fears and goldang I CAN interpret drawings.

We plan to put the heat exchange in place clamp it connect all the pipes (flanged fittings). At this stage we KNOW everything fits together then we will set bolts. I want to avoid drilling if I can - I don't think I will be that lucky. Am also considering welding.

I tried self tapping in the structure square tube columns and had poor luck. I believe the pilot drill was too small or as my brother said the bolts were slightly oversize. I think the pilot was too small because I broke off the tap also mostly cause I got impatient (big rush the hurrieder I go etc etc). I got self tapping to work by doing it like a tap put it in back it off several times then they were OK. They are not completely out of the picture though.



Dan
 
Dan,

We commonenly use a self DRILLING/Tapping Bolt with a machine thread (somthing like 3/8-24). The larger bolts are hex head and driven with an impact wrench once the hole is drilled.

Shooting bolts of that size, through 1/2" steel is very diffucult and provides mixed results at best.
 
Dan,

Another thought...I have a set of what our shop guys call "draps"..short for combination drill & tap. I searched the web but could only find a set by Greenlee that goes to 1/4-20. Buy my set goes to 3/8-16 & 24. I have no idea where they came from, but I'll find out tomarrow.
 
Thanks Mike, I need to make a little more room in my tool box I think.
They deburr and counter sink too...cool.
Brian.
 
Mike
Wont work for my current application (1/2 thick angle)
BUT they sure would in thinner stuff. Have hex shank so looks like you could use a cordless drill.
Here is partial quote from Greenlie
Drills and taps the proper hole size in one operation. Made from high speed steel to ensure longer life, the Greenlee Combo Drill/Tap Bit is designed to tap up to 10 gauge metal and has a high quality hex shank to ensure a strong connection.

Gonna see my Greenlie guy.

Tanx hole bunch

Dan
 
Dan,

The Greenlee stuff I posted was just an example. I've seen them for 1/2 & 5/8 tap sizes with the ability to drill through as much as 3/4" material. I have a set in my personal toolbox that goes from #6 to 3/8". However our shop has larger sizes yet. I've gotta ask Jerry, (our buyer), where he gets the larger sizes becasue I cant find them on the web.
 
The more you send me about these the more I like it.

Will also see my Greenlie guy and send any info I get.
Same goes for Hilti guy.

Will this entitle us to be called "Your Holiness?

Dan
 

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