I know this is way the heck OT, but...........

[rgurin]

I saw something similar to this earlier from the Washington Post. One thing mentioned in the Post that I did not see there is that some Bush critics have acknowledged that even if the levee funding had not been cut, it still may not have completely averted the flooding, since the levees would have been reinforced only to survive up to a Category 3 hurricane.

Also, I don't think the needed repairs could have been finished in time.

(Sidenote: I would consider myself aligned in thought more with the critics, but as a former journalist, I believe in presenting both sides of the story--even if I personally believe one side is BS!)

 

[Tom Jenkins]

You actually expect these people to walk unknown miles through a wasteland, littered with untold hazards & randomly peppered with roving gangs taking pot-shot at them?

Yes.

The gangs are IN New Orleans!

And it isn't untold miles through a wasteland. I've driven from downtown New Orleans across the river to the City of Algiers. You can see downtown Algiers from the area next to the convention center. You could see it from the convention center itself if the levee wasn't in the way.

I haven't been all the way to Baton Rouge (80 miles) but I guarantee there is very little wilderness between the two cities. It probably has the highest concentration of refineries etc. outside New Jersey!

 

[elevmike]

Tom,

1) They had no communications, no food, no water, and no idea where to go for assistance. How would they know what would be a safe route. They would have no idea that the other side (Algiers) wasn’t flooded also.
2) When you made your drive (before the hurricane)you had a pretty good idea that your route was passable. They don’t.

3) Walking away from the convention center would scatter the DPs making it much more difficult to find them and provide assistance.

3) Don’t forget the biggie: They were told to stay there and help would arrive.

In any rescue effort it's SOP to stay put. That way the authorities can clear the DPs in a methodical order, cordoning off sections of the search area and clearing them without having to go back and search the same area over and over for wandering survivors, wasting valuable time and manpower resources.

 

[Eric Nelson]

I resemble that remark...

It probably has the highest concentration of refineries etc. outside New Jersey!

I get your point, Tom, but remember that there's more to NJ than just what you see on The Sopranos...

Actually, when you compare pertroleum facts about New Jersey vs. Louisiana, they have us beat by a mile!... :nodi:

I think if the media didn't 'cry wolf' so often, more people might have listened. I understand the amount of guesswork involved in weather prediction, but each time they get it wrong, people become more complacent...



-Eric

 

[Lancie1]

Tom,

You will be glad to know that I heard on the radio that some people ARE walking out. If I was there, I would be walking out. But I have always tried to stand on my own two feet, and I have never been of the VICTIM state of mind. I probably would never live in a place that is below sea level, in the path of hurricanes, and subject to flooding from the mighty Mississippi River.

I think most of Washington politicos have decided that it will be too expensive to keep funneling money into a place that is bound to sink into the mud sooner or later. In this case they were right not to spend the money on levees. It would have been too little and wasted effort. It is time to let this city die.

In the old days, people were responsible for themselves. Cities were responsible for themselves. Counties and states were responsible for themselves. Exactly when and why did we in the US become so dependent on the federal government for every aspect of our lives? Did Washington ever promise to be our keepers?

 

[Eric Nelson]

Exactly when and why did we in the US become so dependent on the federal government for every aspect of our lives?

When: February 3, 1913

Why: Because we could no longer afford to be self-sufficient, thanks to THIS...

It's been all downhill ever since...



-Eric

 

[jstolaruk]

When: February 3, 1913

Why: Because we could no longer afford to be self-sufficient, thanks to THIS...

It's been all downhill ever since...



-Eric

Yep. And reinforced when congress put themselves in charge of social security ("liberating it") so they could raid the surpluses. I wanna say "Social Security Act of 1965"?

 

[AndyT]

/Personal rant/



I am glad you have the ability to debate the who’s and why’s of this disaster. I wish you the best of luck and perhaps you can find the root cause of this. In the mean time the elderly and infants are dieing. We see it on the news but more importantly from people that have connections in this area.



We have a belief that you either get on board and engage or get out of the way. What are you doing tonight?



/Done with this/

 

[corkers]

Firstly Heartfelt sympathy goes out to all those who suffered loss in the wake of Katrina...

I believe Australia has pledged disaster management specialists to assist your local and national authorities.

We were actually discussing the financial aid issue the other nite. One school of thought was why does the strongest economy in the world need finanical assistance? "Well the're (the government) is spending $235M a day in Iraq"

The other was, we need to help those in need whoever they maybe.

Please note the concensus was that the provision of aid in resources such as knowledge helicopters boats and labour was not in question.

 

[curlyandshemp]

I have not and can not darnit! I can barely afford my meds and chemo.

I wonder how many countries the USA has and is still helping in their times of crisis with our monies and blood will even bother to help us.

I'm waiting...............(hint, you will not rquire a pocket calculator)

Rod

I think you will find your government will not admit it needs international help.That is an admition of weakness. Imagine a Canadian military disaster relief regiment showing up in New Orleans before a US based group ?
Also you may not know, but your neighbour to the north is the only so far 'international' country to offer support. Air Canada is flying down bottled water, then boarding the same planes with people to relief centers.

Ian Phillips

 

[bwheat]

You know, this is a bad situation. I live in north Louisiana and there is a huge amount of people up here from down south. The problem is what are we going to do with everybody. Basically, most of these people dont have a house or a job to back to for at best months maybe never. Our school system are already trying to absorb all of the children that are trying to get back into school somewhere. We have families housed in the local civic center. People are taking some into there homes. There was even a couple of families staying in a car at the local Wal-Mart. We have donated money and clothes. Whatever we thought they could use. I am sure this is going on all over the state. Yeah, I did not like what I saw on TV. A whole lot of thugs running around with guns, shooting at helecopters and preying on anybody they could. But there are a lot of good people that lost everything but what they brought with them. It's going to be a tough road ahead for a lot of people to rebuild a life.

Lets put it in way maybe most of us in this forum can understand. You are working at your system integration job (factory, whatever) one day writing code and the next your whole city is gone. Yeah, most of us here have the knowledge and skills to rebuild and get back on our feet but maybe you have a wife and kids to feed in the meantime and you need a place to stay to figure out your next move.

I guess I better stop now.

 

[Leadfoot]

Red Stick, Cajun Land AKA Baton Rouge, LA

Tom,

The problem with your idea of walking out is that initially, the area you mentioned was under water and not walkable.

I too travel that area several times a month. I saw a picture of an off ramp just before the DOME. A section of freeway that is "ON THE GROUND" but elevated above the streets was somewhat covered in water. I saw a picture of a building where the water was ONLY up about 1/2 foot on the loading dock doors. Having walked thru the walk in door to the right, I know the door sits on the dock at my waist when standing on the driveway. The street is several feet lower. Initially the DOME was totally surrounded by water. The other side of the freeway is the dome. It was not shown in the photos. The local stations were not allowed to have their choppers flying around the NO air space even after the storm passed. When they got the OK to fly, you could see just how deep the water really got.

By the time things got walkable, it was not healthy to walk thru the water to get out.

The army trucks that arrived today, had to drive thru water to get to the dome area.

Everyday the media reports that the water is going down again. Locals tell me it is just the tide going out. Until the levees are fixed and the pumping can actually remove more water, things will be a bit wet there. The BIG EASY is EASY NO MORE.

BTW, the Red Cross and Salvation Army are doing a right fine job. The collection stations in Baton Rouge are overflowing already with just the local donations. Several wharehouses were donated to help with the overflow. Right now they need bodies to help sort and distribute.

I recommend NO one try to go to NO. You cannot get near the place anyway. If you feel the need to help out, check with the RC or SA or the organization of your choice and see what they need. Remember, Slidell, Hammond, LongBeach, Gulf Port, Biloxi are just marks on the map too. Mississippi and Alabama Gulf Coast were also devistated. The equipment and resources dedicated to NO is tremendous. I would not believe it if I did not see the equipment and supplies headed there every day. Yes it is slow getting to those still trapped. But they are doing the best as humanly possible.

 

[gbradley]

Interesting Oil link.
I didn't know you couldn't pump your own gas in New Jersey.
I always feel funny when traveling through Oregon having to watch an old man fuel up my car when I am perfectly capable of doing that myself.

 

[akreel]

I'm getting annoyed at the headlines/news surrounding this mess. To paraphrase a few choice new clips:

Poorest sections of the city not evacuated as efficiently as wealthy sections
What's poor/wealthy? What's the measure of "evacuation efficiency"? Is there even a point to this comparison?

Fed response ineffective because of war in Iraq
So, we need the ENTIRE military to deal with the cleanup? Anything more than a few thousand national guard troops would be a hinderance IMHO.

More people/property could've been saved if we had a different president, in fact the city might not even be flooded.
The hurricanes that went through last year scared the heck out of New Orleans. There was a year in between to develop an evacuation plan. Did they use that plan? How many years has it been apparent that an event like this is LIKELY to happen (and who was president during all those decades)?

We usually get stories of heroism and tearful reunions after a disaster like this. The press apparently has a bug up its collective butt this time.

Let's get everyone out who wants to get out, then step back and decide whether on not the city should be turned into a scuba-diving resort. If I were living there, I'd tell the insurance company to take my check and build me a new house "up north" (Illinois might be far enough).

AK

 

[Tom Jenkins]

The State Department said offers of help had been received from:

Australia, Austria, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Belgium, Canada, China, Columbia, Cuba, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Germany, Guatemala, Greece, Guyana, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Paraguay, Philippines, Portugal, South Korea, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Slovakia, Spain, Sri Lanka, Switzerland, Sweden, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, United Kingdom, the United Arab Emirates, and Venezuela.

Thank You