InTouch Start-Up / Setup - Need help

[dalporto]

Hi everybody.


This is part number 3 of my new project with stuff we don't usually work with.


Thanks to everyone who takes time to answer, it's really appreciated. I take a look every day to the new topics to see if I could help too.


I'm pretty sure this have been discussed over and over, but since I'm not sure what to look for, where to start and the fact that it has a couple layers deep, I'm just starting a new thread.




Here we go. It's a rehab, protection & control, we're replacing the PLCs (with mostly the same thing).


There is kind of an hybrid that they call SCADA which is in fact more of a HMI hosted on a VM on a local desktop (or a server, not really important for now).


It's InTouch. Pages already exists, we'll do few minor modifications since it's a rehab, mostly remap on a lot of things.


We requested for backups and information, and I need to build a setup from that information that will then be use on site, and I have no idea where to start / if we have something to buy to set it up. Here we go. What I got from customer:





InTouch - Version 11.1.13100 2400.0179.0527.0019


Available for download / free download? (they also sent me .lic that I don't know their purpose yet) Do we propose an update for a later version (I'm guessing it's 10 years old)? What would be the impact? This is the runtime, am I right?




InTouch Window maker Ver 11.1.13100 with SN# XXXXXX (2014 R2 SP1)



My guess is that is kind of goes with the previous.





SuiteLink protocol is used to talk with Rockwell controller


I have no idea what is that. Is it like an OPC? It's bridging between Rockwell PLC and InTouch using tags, is that it? It's another software? Do I need a licence? Who sells that?


HOSTDISK_SERIAL_NUM=30BF8B02_Concurrent_XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.lic
HOSTDISK_SERIAL_NUM=30BF8B02_Concurrent_XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.lic
HOSTDISK_SERIAL_NUM=30BF8B02_Concurrent_XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.lic
HOSTDISK_SERIAL_NUM=30BF8B02_Concurrent_XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.lic


What are those? My guess would be that they have 4 runtimes available.


HMI Feb 9, 2021.exe
HMI Feb 9, 2021.exe.manifest
HMI Feb 9, 2021.inf


That looks like the page backups, which is weird to me that it would backup in the for of an .exe file. It's something like 8 MB.



I tried it on a VM with a very old InTouch version and it was trying to open something in InTouch Widow Maker before to fail, so I'm guessing this is indeed the backups.


So, what do I need to build a new VM to run that HMI?


Thank you very much.

 

[ynpmoose]

Suitelink is an AVEVA (Wonderware) proprietary communication protocol. InTouch can only act as a Suitelink client. In this setup, typically that Suitelink connection would be to a AVEVA(Wonderware) ABCIP or ABTCP driver, depending on the AB PLC model. That driver can then talk to the PLC. InTouch and the driver do require a license, often bundled as an InTouch with IO license in this type of setup. Licensing is available from the customer's regional AVEVA distributor.

If you are upgrading PLCs, a word of warning. AB often makes changes in Logix firmware versions that break AVEVA's ABCIP driver, so the driver may need to be upgraded if you need it to work with modern Logix firmware. Given the age of your InTouch app, it would also need to be upgraded, as the gap between the driver and app would be too large. InTouch 11 is ~10 years old as you guessed.

 

[JohnCalderwood]

dalporto,

I am going to try with my knowledge, but others may know more than I do.

Wonderware Intouch 2014R2 SP1 should come as a package, comprising WindowViewer (runtime), WindowMaker (development), Suitelink protocol to talk to PLCs (file type dependent on version DAserver think is the latest)
InTouch not a free download, but it looks like you have a lic file - open in text format and see what it says. If WindowMaker fails to start, you may only have a runtime license.
We export InTouch applications here to an 'aapkg file', but this does not include the communications configuration.
older applications require the full project directory to be copied and saved.

Your HOSTDISK...lic files, they may well be Rockwell licences, again open up in text and see what they say.

 

[dalporto]

Thank you guys, it's a great start.


Found this package that should do the trick:


Last revision: 2/3/2016
This document contains important information about Wonderware® System Platform 2014 R2 Service Pack 1 (SP1), which includes the following products:

• Wonderware InTouch HMI 2014 (v11.1) R2 SP1
• Wonderware Application Server 2014 (v4.1) R2 SP1
• Wonderware Historian Server 2014 R2 (v11.6) SP1
• Wonderware Historian Client 2014 R2 (v10.6) SP1
• Wonderware Information Server 2014 R2 (v5.6)
• Wonderware InTouch Access Anywhere 2014 R2 (v11.1) SP1

I have access to Suitelink client downloads but I'm not sure which one to pick. Doesn't look like it's part of System Platform download. If I pick the latest one, would it even work between a 1756-L71 and InTouch 11?



ABCIP or ABTCP driver, depending on the AB PLC model: Right now they go throught 1756-EN2TR on for two 1756-L71 PLC. From the names of the drivers you're saying, my guess would be that they're already running on ABTCP? We're moving to 1756-L82 CPUs on V35.



Given the age of your InTouch app, it would also need to be upgraded, as the gap between the driver and app would be too large. Let say we want to start fresh. Is that a big deal to convert the InTouch 11 project to whatever actual "stable" version of InTouch? Also, what would be this latest version?


file type dependent on version DAserver think is the latest: DAserver? It tickles my memory, what is it again?


We export InTouch applications here to an 'aapkg file': This would be the whole GR, right? The guy at site told me that its whole project is bundled in the *.exe application, which I find really uncanny. I'll install 2014 on a blank VM and see what happens I guess.


Your HOSTDISK...lic files, they may well be Rockwell licences:

I don't know why I didn't think to do that in the first place. You're right, that is looking like their RSLogic activation files:


# Rockwell Software Activation File
# Copyright (c) 2012 Rockwell Automation Technologies, Inc. All Rights Reserved

SERVER this_host DISK_SERIAL_NUM=XXXXXXXX
USE_SERVER
VENDOR flexsvr
INCREMENT RS5000.EXE flexsvr 1.00 permanent 1 \
VENDOR_STRING=1203008101 vendor_info="PRODUCT_NAME:RSLogix \

 

[ynpmoose]

ABCIP DAServer does not support firmware beyond v28. You need to get this system upgraded to InTouch/ABCIP 2023 (which also upgrades all the other components you lsited) and will need new licenses. Even v35 is not technically supported yet, but should be soon. v34 is the newest officially supported version.

The upgrade should be fairly straightforward (if you know the tools and have experience), but there are some details that are easy to mess up and new features, like encryption, which you may want to implement. I would suggest hiring a AVEVA-certified systems integrator. Based on the questions your asking, it would be in your best interest to get an expert involved. The distributor can recommend someone. If you don't know how to use the tools, it will be painful.

aaPKG are exports from the Integrated Developer Environment (IDE). Those are used to move app from a dev to prod environment. To install the app on a HMI node, it would be deployed from the IDE.

 

[drbitboy]

The .EXE files, if they are indeed backups, might be self-extracting .ZIP files. If so, usually you can point something like 7zip at the .EXEs and see the .ZIP contents.

 

[5618]

If it's a classic stand-alone application, you just copy the entire application folder to copy the application. A modern managed application uses the .aapkg to transfer. Application Manager shows the type of application. We still mostly use the classic. Modern is a whole new can of worms that can be nice and can also be terrible, depending on the developer. I'm somewhat anti-modern after experiencing a terrible one.

Licensing with the newer versions has changed. 2014 only needed the license file(s) dropped in a specific location. If you update to 2023, that uses a license server which could be local or a network system. The licenses require online activation directly or via file transfer with another system that is internet connected. Changing the computer name, grossly incorrect system clock, and other things that might appear as a licensing workaround will break activation. If it's activated but showing grace period, you're still not fully activated. You did something to trigger that like try to run without activation. You night be able to get temporary licenses through your distributor.

Some other plants use terminal server where the application runs on a VM and the terminals are thin clients. It sounds like that's what you have. I haven't dealt with the nuances of licensing that. Some love the central management, some hate the central dependency. We don't use it and I'm glad for that. We use NAD (network application development) where the master applications are on a central server and when View starts, it checks for a newer version on the server and downloads to local if there's a change.

The information server is now called OI server. That can be local or a network location. The license for that is on the OI system. You don't need a license locally if all data is from a OI server on the network. We use redundant networked OI servers with failover for most of our systems, but here are a couple independent systems with the OI server running on-board.

It sounds like the Allen Bradley driver pack added to the OI should cover your needs. ABTCP is older for PLC-5. ABCIP covers Control/CompactLogix and MicroLogix / SLC with Ethernet. Neither driver does Micro 800. That would use MBTCP. I hope M800 gets added to ABCIP. I'll presume you don't need to care about DH+.

Edit, a bit more: We're using 2020 applications for reference. In the newer versions, don't trust cross reference. It misses usages, especially in scripts, but I'm not certain it's consistent on what it misses. If you print the application to a text file (select everything except window images / graphics) and search for text of a tagname, you can be sure to find everything.

I second that you might want to get experienced help if you're doing much. It's quite different than other HMI systems. It gets a lot of dislike, but I'm used to it and mostly like it. (maybe waning a bit) Hold shift to select multiple items, not control.

In the 2023 OI we're using, there is some problem where we get stale data in a cache and some tags don't show correct data. As of a few weeks ago, there's no fix yet. It's more noticeable or prevalent when actively developing with HMI and PLC online changes. Our fix is deactivate the server, remove the cache folder, and reactivate the server.

You might be tempted with the menu item delete unused tags. That will delete tags that aren't used in a window or script, but the tags might only be used for an alarm, and now they're gone. With the bad cross reference now, that doesn't really work anyway.

 

[dalporto]

Thanks a lot for the info and the tips.


I already reached for my local distributor and he provided with a temporary .lic for 2014 R2, it was quick. He also confirmed that V34 wasn't officially supported yet.



I also asked him if migration was in our support package. I'd like to follow the steps he'll be doing to understand how it works, my last training on System Platform is way back.


And yes, that .exe file was kind of a zip file but I really needed to run it to expend the content, didn't work with 7zip. I guess this can be backed up in .exe using Windowmaker?


For the end-user licencing, we'll need to work with the customer. Actual licensing would not cover for the update because it's not working like it was with 2014 indeed.



Again, thanks for showing me the path.

 

[dalporto]

Ok, new question here:


I established communication between Logix and InTouch 2023. Also comm between a M580 and InTouch.



So in Logix (V35) I have variables. In InTouch I have the same tags.


My understanding was that in SMC I needed to declare every variable in Device Items to make the path between the two of them, but right now it's simply empty and it's working, so I'm kind of confused.


I just add variables on each side to make it work.


I know that V35 is not officially supported yet on System Platform 2023, but I don't see it being the issue here.


Anyone who knows recent InTouch?


Thanks.

 

[ynpmoose]

SMC Device Items list is only required if you want to alias the client requested tag to a PLC tag, otherwise ABCIP will just pass though the requested item syntax as-is (from the InTouch IO tag's Item reference). This is best if you don't want to have to maintain that list.

FYI - Populating Device Items also allows OPC DA clients of the server to browse tags, but that's not relevant here.

 

[dalporto]

SMC Device Items list is only required if you want to alias the client requested tag to a PLC tag, otherwise ABCIP will just pass though the requested item syntax as-is (from the InTouch IO tag's Item reference). This is best if you don't want to have to maintain that list.

FYI - Populating Device Items also allows OPC DA clients of the server to browse tags, but that's not relevant here.

Ohh, thank you so much.