Is the MicroLogix 1400 really going away?

[johnd_125]

But how much time does Rockwell need to get CCW right? Seems to me they've had plenty of time already. Clumsy software and I've found the hardware (Micro 820s) isn't overly robust either.

I think my future 1400 projects will be moving to a different brand. It's too bad. The 1400 was a great tool in the box.

They have had plenty of time to get it right. I was being a little sarcastic.

I hate to see ML1400 (and RSLogix 500) go away as well. But if I am going to have to learn something new like CCW thats tied to hardware I can't get for 8 months, with a price that just goes up and up, from a company that acts like I owe them something, I'm also thinking it might be a good time to make a jump to another brand? What, though?

Automation Direct? Maybe a matter of training but I have struggled when I've had to jump in the middle of someone else's programming.

Codesys? I've had to come in on some Wago stuff and didn't mind it much. Codesys seems to be more future proof.

Mitsubishi? I've got the software loaded and a quote for a starter kit in my hands right now. The software looks and feels modern but I haven't used it to speak of.

Idec? Don't laugh. I got in on a system and made alot of changes and NEVER had a problem with the operation of the software.

What about others that would be the easiest jump for someone familiar with RSLogix500 and Micrologix?

 

[OkiePC]

I am a fan of the Click Plus and DoMore. The Click software lacks trending (unless you use the PID). The Click PID is really good.

The Click editor is pretty good, but you can't drag and drop address around and can't edit descriptions without opening the Address Picker.

The DoMore performance is great, but the software structure is a little weird. Not sure why I can't put message instructions in a subroutine, or maybe I can, I just don't have enough experience to understand how to structure the code to allow me to break things up the way I can do it with RSLogix.

Both models lack a LCD display but otherwise are pushing right up against ML1400 capability.

The software is free and very capably for both of those families and availability has been decent for most models. We recently had to use the Click as remote Ethernet IP I/O for a Compactlogix system because we could not get the required analog inputs with the A/B logo on it. I was highly impressed with how well it performed and how easy it was to create an EDS and add it to the Studio5000 I/O tree. I did have to roll my own "heartbeat" just in case the Click PLC halted, but the performance has been excellent.

We are using the Click Plus for future simple telemetry systems that originally called for the ML1400 and by doing so, we are saving panel space, cost and losing nothing in performance. It might take an extra 10% engineering time to write programs but for simple well and tank controls, that doesn't amount to much.

 

[sbaum]

I'm interested in this question as well.

We have several ML1400 programs that are developed for OEM machinery and are fairly extensive. It'll take a fair time investment to convert those.

We also use a lot of Omron so the Omron NX1P is a natural option, however they are tough to get right now as well, and hardware cost would be more if I factor in all the IO needed that is built into the ML1400 brick (HSC, Analog, RS485). Sysmac Studio is great once you learn the ropes, but quite different from RSLogix500

I have been considering Automation Direct Productivity Series. I have used it a couple years back and found the software ok. I'm not real fond of the back-plane style of PLC though. Maybe I should check out DoMore, but with my initial looks the hardware and software felt very dated.

Have considered Codesys also. Did a project with a Schneider PLC a few years back. Loved the power of the software, wasn't so sure about the strength of the hardware. (Schneider HMISCUA5) Seemed if you went online incorrectly or crossed your fingers wrong when doing online edits, the program would be lost. But good chance I was just unfamiliar with the system. In my Omron experience, online editing is solid, and one can download with out losing retentive variables.

 

[Elcan]

They have had plenty of time to get it right. I was being a little sarcastic.

I hate to see ML1400 (and RSLogix 500) go away as well. But if I am going to have to learn something new like CCW thats tied to hardware I can't get for 8 months, with a price that just goes up and up, from a company that acts like I owe them something, I'm also thinking it might be a good time to make a jump to another brand? What, though?

Automation Direct? Maybe a matter of training but I have struggled when I've had to jump in the middle of someone else's programming.

Codesys? I've had to come in on some Wago stuff and didn't mind it much. Codesys seems to be more future proof.

Mitsubishi? I've got the software loaded and a quote for a starter kit in my hands right now. The software looks and feels modern but I haven't used it to speak of.

Idec? Don't laugh. I got in on a system and made alot of changes and NEVER had a problem with the operation of the software.

What about others that would be the easiest jump for someone familiar with RSLogix500 and Micrologix?

I would use AutomationDirect as a replacement for the M1400, in particular the Productivity series. You'll get tags, UDTs, web server, project simulator, etc.

 

[bill4807]

We recently had to use the Click as remote Ethernet IP I/O for a Compactlogix system because we could not get the required analog inputs with the A/B logo on it. I was highly impressed with how well it performed and how easy it was to create an EDS and add it to the Studio5000 I/O tree. I did have to roll my own "heartbeat" just in case the Click PLC halted, but the performance has been excellent.

We are using the Click Plus for future simple telemetry systems that originally called for the ML1400 and by doing so, we are saving panel space, cost and losing nothing in performance. It might take an extra 10% engineering time to write programs but for simple well and tank controls, that doesn't amount to much.

I did this as well.
Bought 4 click racks for remote IO. Couldnt get anything else even rack IO for the 5380 plc.
Haven't commissioned it yet so hoping it holds up. I got a little nervous while wiring the clicks, seemed a little fragile.but hey for the price.
I have added them to the io tree and set the io up but thats about it so far.
Any spftware tips that had you nervous? Were there no comms tags to monitor, the reason for your own heartbeat?

 

[geniusintraining]

.... They did say Rockwell is still planning on supporting them through at least 2030.

My question... what is the definition of "supporting" are they going to manufacture them until 2030 then when stock is depleted they will stop OR are they going to stop production of them now and still "support" RSLogix 500, firmware updates, etc. and make sure everything works (not) with Windows until 2030?

I am also sure there is a disclaimer on RA's site somewhere, "anything is subject to change at anytime"

 

[goghie]

Little bit off with this topic, but if you have project that needs to be finished in near future than you should stay away from Ethernet/IP, EthernetCAT and Profinet and use plain and simple digital and analog IOs.

 

[TheWaterboy]

The Click editor is pretty good, but you can't drag and drop address around and can't edit descriptions without opening the Address Picker.

Yes, that is annoying - I have a similar issue with the Spectrum Gateways. The back and forth is frustrating when you are in the moment.

and how easy it was to create an EDS and add it to the Studio5000 I/O tree. I did have to roll my own "heartbeat" just in case the Click PLC halted, but the performance has been excellent.

Wait a tick . . . you can add these to the IO tree of Logix? I had not even considered that... that's interesting. Is there an EDS template to build from? I've not tried creating one before.

 

[JTCat]

Quote: "get ready to get used to the micro800 platform!"
Never in a million years!

At least they don't further paywall STX or FBD programming.

One of the biggest *** moves by AB is making STX a 'premium' feature.

 

[I_Automation]

I was highly impressed with how well it performed and how easy it was to create an EDS and add it to the Studio5000 I/O tree. I did have to roll my own "heartbeat" just in case the Click PLC halted, but the performance has been excellent.

Can you make a post here on how to do this?



This might be better than putting remote I/O on a system, and possibly to monitor older PLC and relay systems without upgrading them to CLX.

 

[bob1371]

I've used about 20 of the Productivity 1000 & 2000 series PLC's over the last couple of years with zero issues. Several of them have replaced old Cutler Hammer D100 PLC's in some 1980's assembly equipment with 120vac controls.

I also purchased the Protos X remote EIP IO system from AD. I bought several of these so if I have issues finding an AB input or output card I can throw this in the panel and keep going.

Hopefully we can start seeing a return to normalcy next year and I can start throwing my money back to AB.

 

[Rson]

Can you make a post here on how to do this?



This might be better than putting remote I/O on a system, and possibly to monitor older PLC and relay systems without upgrading them to CLX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcWbGf73ldc

 

[I_Automation]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcWbGf73ldc

Thanks Rson.


Watched it twice, the second time went through Click and Studio5K while watching it, Then downloaded it and saved a copy in my PLC Doc's folder.


That might just become my new way of doing remote I/O


EDIT: Just looked on the AutoDir website to check out the clicks for this, and almost every CPU with Ethernet is out of stock

 

[rupej]

I am a fan of the Click Plus and DoMore. The Click software lacks trending (unless you use the PID). The Click PID is really good.

The Click editor is pretty good, but you can't drag and drop address around and can't edit descriptions without opening the Address Picker.

The DoMore performance is great, but the software structure is a little weird. Not sure why I can't put message instructions in a subroutine, or maybe I can, I just don't have enough experience to understand how to structure the code to allow me to break things up the way I can do it with RSLogix.

Both models lack a LCD display but otherwise are pushing right up against ML1400 capability.

The software is free and very capably for both of those families and availability has been decent for most models. We recently had to use the Click as remote Ethernet IP I/O for a Compactlogix system because we could not get the required analog inputs with the A/B logo on it. I was highly impressed with how well it performed and how easy it was to create an EDS and add it to the Studio5000 I/O tree. I did have to roll my own "heartbeat" just in case the Click PLC halted, but the performance has been excellent.

We are using the Click Plus for future simple telemetry systems that originally called for the ML1400 and by doing so, we are saving panel space, cost and losing nothing in performance. It might take an extra 10% engineering time to write programs but for simple well and tank controls, that doesn't amount to much.

Any tips on how to use the click analog I/O as remote I/O for 5000 processors? I tried pulling in some analog words but they came in as seemingly random numbers. I wasn't sure if I needed to do some bit shift, word swap or what, and couldn't find any documentation on it.

But otherwise the overall setup and digital I/O stuff was very intuitive.

 

[OkiePC]

Since we did have some local Compactlogix analog inputs on the system we put together, I set the scaling for the analog inputs on the Click to be 4000.0 to 20000.0 so they would show up in milliamps on the HMI and my scaling screen would not require an extra step other than implied decimal point. The compactlogix inputs were scaled with integers and the Click requires a REAL for the analog scaling, but otherwise, the data looks the same in my Studio project scaling and filtering logic.

In addition to the analog expansion card, I also wanted to control and monitor the Click local I/O so I added logic to map the discrete X and Y memory locations to a DS register (INT in RSLogix). I created the EDS file using the wizard in the click software and then added it to my Studio 5k project. It imported the EDS which even included a Click icon that showed up in the I/O tree and all was good.

I think I used 64 bytes for the input assembly and 32 bytes for the output. Only about half of that data had a predetermined usage, but I always make room for expansion when setting up any comms.

I tested all the obvious "what ifs" and found that if the Ethernet connection was good but the Click halted (program mode), there was no obvious way to see that in Studio, so I edited the Click program to move the scan counter (SD9) to the last INT of the input assembly which is a rapidly changing number I could monitor in Studio as a means of detecting the Click was not in Run Mode. If the Click faults or gets put in program mode, that number will stop changing.

I found that there wasn't a way to mix BOOLs and REALs in the Studio software settings for the Click I/O, so I left the data type there as SINT and added a UDT to match up with the actual data types of the Click data, and added COPy instructions to move the raw data back and forth between my Click_IN and Click_OUT UDTs. This also let me prepopulate the comments since we had 6 of these remote panels using Click I/O.

There were a small handful of trials before I settled on the EDS file I was happy with so I did go back later and find all the unused EDS files and blow them away.

I am at home without access to the software, but from memory, that is a summary of what I did. We were using these on cheap ethernet radios too, but there were no issues keeping it all working. It was a job that used mobile trailers for each of the remotes and the customer needed it done fast and did not want to have any more extra cables running all over the place, so we actually used Ubiquiti Loco5AC radios and they were fine. My backup plan was to poll them with the HMI and let it map them into the Compactlogix if I ran into connection issues, but there were none. If you were to repeat this setup with cheap radios like I did, I do recommend locking each Ubiquiti Station to the AP. Before I did that, it could take a minute or two to establish comms after powering up. With the radios locked to the AP, the comms would get established within a few seconds.

This process also was quite tolerant of delays, so I left the RPI at the default 250ms and made my heartbeat timeout alarm 5 seconds which was plenty safe for this frack water treatment system.