Need Your Expert opinion

mryoung482749

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Nov 2007
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In planning stage to data collect OEE performance of entire plant in stages of work cells. Would like opinion from previous experience of what applications of software would work best and why? examples; WinCC, FactorySQL, Factory Talk
Cells have various PLC's Fanuc America, Siemens< Allen Bradley.
In future also plan displaying some cell data on some sort devices.
 
Last edited:
My choice preference would be Inductive Automations product. It is easy to use, stable, and the tech support is phenominal. The price is also very competitive. It is all web based and all the data is stored in SQL. Then by using a product such as Kepserver you can license the drivers you want and need for what ever PLC's you have. what you might want to do is go to their web site inductiveautomation.com and check out the free online demo and also sign up for a tutorial where they call you and use some product to access your computer and go thru all the setup and such. Quite informative. Just my .02





mryoung482749 said:
In planning stage to data collect OEE performance of entire plant in stages of work cells. Would like opinion from previous experience of what applications of software would work best and why? examples; WinCC, FactorySQL, Factory Talk
Cells have various PLC's Fanuc America, Siemens< Allen Bradley.
In future also plan displaying some cell data on some sort devices.
 
mrtweaver beat me to this one - but he provided an excellent answer ;) I believe Inductive Automation is the way to go here. If you sign up for a web demo and mention your specific problem, you'll get a tailored interactive demo. I'll provide you with specific info, some of it my opinion, that will hopefully help out.

A few key points:
1. An "HMI" won't do. Although the OEE equations are simple, the application necessarily deals with lots of historical (and current) data tracking. This lends itself best to an SQL database based application that either needs to be very flexible, or pre-canned and close to your needs. A red flag should go off if the vendor isn't running this on an SQL database - all the big players will be. Most general HMIs will not suit this need as their flexibility tends to be limited when dealing with large amounts of data (They're limited to fixed graphing, alarm history, user audit log, etc, unless you get into a lot of scripting). Most vendors even separate "Historians" from HMIs, and your example is a step farther in that direction.

2. Getting into specific applications - I believe WinCC falls into the above category as an HMI. They probably offer a separate suitable package/plugin to address the issue, possibly PM-ANALYZE? FactoryTalk is Rockwell's proprietary version, and contribution, to what will eventually become OPC-UA. It's a device interoperability standard. I doubt that any of the numerous versions of RSView, their HMI, would work for you. However, your description fits Plantmetrics, particularly in the term "work cell". I believe Plantmetrics runs with/on top of RSSQL, Rockwell's SQL database engine that uses their modified version of Microsoft SQL Server. The plus is that they've determined a scaleable way, large or small, to track downtime with those workcells. They should also have pre-made well considered reports and analysis. The bad - pricing is based on work cells and many other things. Your software will not be cheap! Nor will it be simple (do a few RSSQL searches here). Additionally, from what I've heard the flexibility may be questionable. I would recommend doing more research. You might even post questions here asking about users experience with Plantmetrics/RSSQL. FactorySQL would work well for this problem because of its great inherent flexibility. The pricing is reasonable compared to the above mentioned. The downside in your case is that none of this is pre-canned, but then again, it's not difficult. The setup will be easy. The hardest part is coming up with a good "schema", your table and column layout. Other packages will typically pre-decide this for you, which really isn't a bad thing in most cases. If you want to be thorough with your due dilligence, check out Wonderware's "Production and Performance Management". I don't know what that is, other than that it runs Archestra (their version of FactoryTalk or OPC-UA), and is probably the closest thing they have. I don't think Intouch could do what you want.

3. The multiple PLC vendor issue. You'll want to ensure compatibility with multiple PLC vendors. The obvious approach is to go through an OPC server (or multiple). I second MRT's recommendation to go with Kepware - their pluggable architecture for KepServer Ex allows you to use a single OPC server. You would purchase modules for each PLC family. They also have a free 2 hour trial version (as does Inductive Automation). All vendors should be able to communicate via OPC - it's the dominant standard. Make sure that are fully functional through the OPC source - this may or may not always be the case. Also make sure that they're not going to charge you excessively for this. Paying for native driver makes sense in a lot of cases, but NOT when you have so many different types of PLCs. FactorySQL only works as an OPC client - that's it. The others are typically centered around their drivers, which is good if you're in an exclusive environment, but bad in your case. For example, the "Classic" version of RSLinx is an OPC server, but Rockwell software is optimized to communicate with it without using standard OPC requests. Good for an AB environment, a bit more questionable when it needs to behave as an OPC client. Companies like Wonderware and Inductive Automation aren't married to individual hardware vendors, making them a bit more conducive to this application.

I guess my bottom line summary is to get whatever is the most suitable for your task. I don't think it'll run on a standard HMI and I'd recommend something that runs on an SQL database of some sort. I'd be surprised if anyone read this far...


mryoung482749 said:
In planning stage to data collect OEE performance of entire plant in stages of work cells. Would like opinion from previous experience of what applications of software would work best and why? examples; WinCC, FactorySQL, Factory Talk
Cells have various PLC's Fanuc America, Siemens< Allen Bradley.
In future also plan displaying some cell data on some sort devices.
 
Almost any good Scada software will do what you need.

Wonderware, iFix, Citect etc.
It all depends on your bugdet, your level of skill in-house and what exactly you want out of the system.
In my experience people buy the bigger, well known products for the tech support and guaranteed lifecycle support of the product.

Maybe spend some $$ to have a reputable integrator come in and sit down with you to see exactly what your budget and system requirements are.
Better to spend a little $ upfront and get what you want than be railroaded by salesmen and end up with an expensive mess.
 
I second SLC_ here. Seeking integrator help, minimally for design consultation, is the best way to go. You could save yourself a lot of time and effort in doing this.

Also, SCADA does stand for "Supervisory control and Data Aquisition" - definately SCADA systems are more appropriate than HMI in this case (their spaces are blending). However, for downtime tracking, specifically OEE type applications on a plant level, most vendors offer a different package than their base SCADA system.


SLC_Integrator said:
Almost any good Scada software will do what you need.

Wonderware, iFix, Citect etc.
It all depends on your bugdet, your level of skill in-house and what exactly you want out of the system.
In my experience people buy the bigger, well known products for the tech support and guaranteed lifecycle support of the product.

Maybe spend some $$ to have a reputable integrator come in and sit down with you to see exactly what your budget and system requirements are.
Better to spend a little $ upfront and get what you want than be railroaded by salesmen and end up with an expensive mess.
 

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