OT: Ethics, accepting a position.

[Steve Bailey]

I think we can all agree that it's no fun to get shafted by The Man. We also seem to agree that we don't have any respect for The Man when he shafts his employees.

What I fail to understand is why anyone would advise newbie to preemptively act like The Man. If newbie behaves like The Man, how are we going to be able to distinguish him from The Man whom we all deplore.

 

[Voltimus]

^By the fact that he is an "employee" rather than an "employer" that's pretty much the "cut and dry" in my opinion.

I've always went the loyalty to company route and have never got anything but the high hard one. My days of loyalty to a company died when I see people who aren't loyal get more than me. I save my loyalty for my wife and family and that's where the buck stops, I lost my house to loyalty, while I sat at home for 6 months waiting for work that was "coming up" I could have left and probably been paid more. Just because a company shoots straight with you once does not mean they are obliged to do so again.

Take what you can, while you can. The employer will find somebody else, or he won't. Just be professional after you accept the job and make it where your attention is focused, they are paying for that.

 

[kamenges]

Originally posted by Voltimus:

I've always went the loyalty to company route and have never got anything but the high hard one.

Good phrase!! I like that one.

Originally posted by Voltimus:

Just be professional after you accept the job and make it where your attention is focused, they are paying for that.

That's the crux of the matter in this case. When do you consider the job accepted? When you tell the new company you accept the offer or when you start your first day of work? Again, this is a very personal thing. But for me personally I accept the job when I accept the offer. Once I get to that point I feel at least somewhat obliged to give 'er a rip. I certainly wouldn't want to intentionally string them along and then back out just before my start date. But then again, that's just me.

Keith

 

[plc_padawan]

I think of myself as a one person corporation. If what one company offers me suits my needs more than another, then that's where I want to be. I don't let my "heart" guide my decisions, because i've had the shaft enough times, by enough employers to know that they don't care who you are, how long you've been there, how many times you've went the extra mile. It's all about the bottom line. The company bottom line.

So I try to look at it that way. If I can make an extra couple of bucks more an hour, working for another company that's about the same distance from my house doing similar work under similar conditions with similar benefits, I'll take it in a heartbeat.

As I once told a maintenance manager who questioned me about hunting for another job when he found out I was looking, " I'm always looking for a better job."

 

[kamenges]

OK, just to recenter this a bit, we aren't talking about keeping your eyes open for a better job here. Most of us do this as a matter of course. The original post asked about accepting a job in the relatively distant future and using it as a security blanket while looking for yet a better job in the interim. If something better comes along kick the origianlly accepted job to the curb.

I don't have any issue with looking for something better. That's just plain natural. What I personally WOULDN'T do is accept a job in the future just as a fallback position knowing full well I may not show up for that job because I'm already looking for something else. Personally, I would not accept the first job and look for the one I want. But, as I said before, that's just me. newbie is a big boy and needs to make a decision he can live with.

Keith

 

[plc_padawan]

well, Newbie can and should accept that position. If something better comes along, great. If not, well then, you have a paycheck. Integrity doesn't put food on the table.


How many companies out ther nowadays have 5 year plans that include outsourcing major parts of their manufacturing operations? Do you think they still hire hourly workers for the time being until the outsourcing phase starts?? Duh...

A very good friend of mine works for a textile manufacturer who recently decided to move their operations to Honduras(6 months from now). They had a meeting with all the maintenance employees and told them that if they helped them get the plant ready to move, they would give them a severance package. ( a couple weeks pay). My friend has put in 15 years with this company, now he's getting kicked to the curb. Did his 15 years of loyalty mean anything?? As he told me,

"they asked us to tie the noose they intend to hang us with"

I left that company several years back because I could see the writing on the wall when they started "outsourcing" small parts of their operations.

It's all about money. Your money.

 

[drewcrew6]

If you know you're going to be unemployed in 2 months why not give your notice when you find the job you want.

I would let the future job know that you are still looking but if there position is available closer to termination then you will accept it then. They already interviewed you and maybe willing to wait for you. And to re-start to reinterview closer to when you will be unemployed if they have not heard from you.
Depends on if the company that is willing to wait.

Drewcrew6

 

[Pierre]

Ethic, loyalty, honesty.

A sea of words in a desert of thouths. Some of you guys could be considered full of **** but I for one would never say such thing.

Read these words. "Make a business decision"

When a firm outsources some or all its work it makes a business decision. There is no feeling and there should not be as long as y mothers pension plan is on the line. Many times its the case. My Mom, your Dad and the girl next door newborn child.

It has nothing to do with **** like loyalty to a firm.

You can be loyal to your wife, your country, your friends but for Christ sake don't give me that nonsense shxt 'bout honor and ethics when it comes to the length of time one should spend after saying YES to his employer. Its not a wedding its a job!

Some feel for the poor lads whom will have to cover you shifts if you do leave to soon.

What? The company does not have a backup crew to cover for such things?

Guess what. They made a business decision not to have one.

Its O.K. - Its there prerogative and so is yours.

This kind of message is incrusted in manyer people than one could think. Its like religion, opium for the poor. Talk about OT -

 

[darrenj]

LOL..here we are arguing ethics!! Should we be arguring about a NIC or an OTE???

From an Employers point of view..I would be dissapointed but understand..you got to do whats right for you..I am a small outfit so my word is my bond..(so to speak)

My wifes cousin works in HR for a large high tech firm..When they "hire" someone there is always 3 candiates..The top gets the call..The others are put on hold until close to the start date..If the first drops out the second is called and they are led to beleive they are number 1.. I personaly do not begruge the guy who takes the job as a "security blanket"..I am ****ed off for a while..but i get over it..

 

[newbie]

Thanks guys

Well, I can't say I'm surprised to see two distinct sides being taken. It's pretty much the same with others I've asked. Thanks for the advice.

I decided that honesty, for better or worse, was the way to go. So, I called and put it to them this way: "I have at least two months before my plant is shut down and I have a number of resumes out there. The calls seem to be just beginning to come in and, in short, I am just not ready to make a decision." (Uncomfortable silence) "I certainly don't expect you to hold a job for me, but I would like to be considered if a position is still available closer to May."

The HR lady said that's fine and that the Maintenance Manager may wait for me anyway. She seemed pretty cool about it and I feel a lot better. Seems to have worked out pretty well.

Again, thanks for your help. Best of luck to anyone else in this position.

 

[PLCRookie]

Ot: Ethics?

Dang it , now I've got to add my 2 cents. Take the job, and if a better one comes along, take it, and if a better one comes along, take it, and if a better one comes along.... you get the point. Look at yourself as the CEO of You Inc. You are a business, look at it that way. Learn as much as you can, do as much as you can, PUT 15% OR MORE OF YOUR PAY AWAY every year. You don't say how old you are, but if you are young, that will be the best advice you ever recieved. You never know just how a job will turn out until you go there. And I mean go there. Give it 110%(I hate it when people say that). Learn everything you can from anyone who is willing to share their knowledge. Knowledge is the only thing you can take from someone without them ever knowing that it was gone. But not just knowledge, PROFOUND knowledge. That means people that KNOW and DO.
I was just in the job market myself, so I know how you feel. It amazed me how well some people spoke to me over the phone, and then when I got to the plant, it was like a f'ing train wreck!
Then again, some phone calls were cr-p, but I said "what the hell" and went anyway, and they turned out fantastic! I say that job hunting is like going on a blind date. It can go from great to sh-t, or sh-t to great, in a heartbeat! You never know !
I'll share a tidbit from an outplacement guy that was hired by the company to assist us layoffers(new word there). One of my co-workers said he was unsure of finding a new job due to the fact that he was 60 years old. He felt that since he couldn't be sure that he could give 10 or 20 years, that a company wouldn't want him. Well, the outplacement guy laughed, and said that no company today expects you to stay more than two years anyway! So the moral of the story is --------?