OT: Ethics

[OkiePC]

Braum's fries are better. That's where I am heading now. Forget this mess it will end how it ends. I am going to visit family and quit watching the phones/email.

Thanks Bernie!

 

[leitmotif]

Okie

I think you first need to set your target - the employee who cut the lock or management for indadequate safety program. OR both ??

There is management right and ability to override your lock and cut it if needed. HOWEVER - they must ensure you get notified.

I do not know if you are in OSHA state or a state run program equivalent to OSHA. OSHA or state program cannot do much against guy who cut your lock. IF they determine it did happen and employer did not follow his written safety program they will cite him for that. After that they will look at paper mostly ie training program training records and other paper trash (my opinion) and cite deficiencies.

I see your situation as simllar to tampering with brakes on a vehicle.


I also believe you pay taxes. Therefore police, District Attorney, OSHA or state program work for you since you pay their wages.

In addition there is workers comp - they are generally paid by employer. They would be interested in this.

You have the right to refuse to do unsafe work. This precedent was set in Whirlpool case. IF they fire you for refusing unsafe work OR filing a complaint with OSHA (or state equivalent) you can file with US Dept of Justice.

Here is what I would do
1. Go talk with District Attorney - he is the Attorney for the People (??) and you are the people. This is I believe negligent or reckless endangerment. He works for you.
2. File with OSHA or state program.
3. Let Worker Comp know
4. I can give a bit of slack to the cops - they are not attorneys - but they should be interested and consulting with Dist Attorney.

If I were in your shoes I would short and bond to ground all conductors that may become energized. It worked well for me once. I would be more than willing to let your bolt cutter clown reach into a hot panel - I would just walk away.

Dan Bentler

 

[RussB]

If someone cut YOUR personal life guarantee lockout hasp while you ate lunch and fired up a 120 volt live circuit without making any attempt to contact you, knowing that there were live wires awaiting the pull for the new cable I was building from single conductor wire upstaris...Would you sorta feel physically threatened by blatantly having your lock cut because the thinks I am milking it, trying to make him look bad.

Woulja' get po'd to the point of "This person pointed a gun into a crowd, and next time he cuts my lock he is 90% sure to be pointing a gun at me."

I would, provided of course you were not "milking it" in some form or fashion, or hadn't in the past.

 

[Tom Jenkins]

You have every right to be ****ed, Okie. The other guy's actions are inexcusable - no one should be allowed to remove another person's lockout. Just don't let your anger carry you away.

I think you need to take a deep breath and prioritize your objectives:

1) Remove yourself from hazard
2) Let management know that this is an unacceptable safety violation
3) Give management an opportunity to retrain or dismiss the offender and establish publicly to all employees that this is not tolerated behavior.
4)If management is unwilling to take action then notify OSHA or other appropriate agency so no one else is endangered.

Understand going in that you will likely never benefit yourself from any action you take, other than the obvious removing yourself from danger. Don't expect vindication or payback for your mistreatment or kudos for doing the right thing. Do the right thing and move on and forget it as soon as you can.

 

[OkiePC]

Thanks, Tom. It has already been done (all of the above) except this is not about me, this was an attack on my co worrkers too. I called work today. The HR dude I called this time had heard nothing from the safety people. He is going straight to the ownership. I let him know about the formal complaints already have been placed (zero since you have to fax them to make it official)...

Okay, so NOW the chit is being flung toward the spinning impeller, but I am not starting any countdowns. Que sera sera. I am in family visiting mode until I hear from someone about what they decide to do.

 

[OkiePC]

Okie

I think you first need to set your target - the employee who cut the lock or management for indadequate safety program. OR both ??

two individuals who conspired to recklessly endanger a small group of people. If I dont' get satisfaction the company is next.

There is management right and ability to override your lock and cut it if needed. HOWEVER - they must ensure you get notified.

I do not know if you are in OSHA state or a state run program equivalent to OSHA. OSHA or state program cannot do much against guy who cut your lock. IF they determine it did happen and employer did not follow his written safety program they will cite him for that. After that they will look at paper mostly ie training program training records and other paper trash (my opinion) and cite deficiencies.

I see your situation as simllar to tampering with brakes on a vehicle.


I also believe you pay taxes. Therefore police, District Attorney, OSHA or state program work for you since you pay their wages.

In addition there is workers comp - they are generally paid by employer. They would be interested in this.

You have the right to refuse to do unsafe work. This precedent was set in Whirlpool case. IF they fire you for refusing unsafe work OR filing a complaint with OSHA (or state equivalent) you can file with US Dept of Justice.

Here is what I would do
1. Go talk with District Attorney - he is the Attorney for the People (??) and you are the people. This is I believe negligent or reckless endangerment. He works for you.
2. File with OSHA or state program.
3. Let Worker Comp know
4. I can give a bit of slack to the cops - they are not attorneys - but they should be interested and consulting with Dist Attorney.

If I were in your shoes I would short and bond to ground all conductors that may become energized. It worked well for me once. I would be more than willing to let your bolt cutter clown reach into a hot panel - I would just walk away.

Dan Bentler

Thanks Dan, the D.A. was recommended by a lady at the OSHA office. Here, OSHA delivered a $500 fine to a previous employer who wrapped a burly contractor around a tread spool. They had no proof they had trained him at all. So many sick faces that day who saw the body. I dodged that one.

OSHA has a nice circle jerk, and a hotline if the body count is high enough. I have seen nothing from any OSHA person to be impressed with. I like their guidelines and rules though. If they enforced them fairly and equally I would gain respect and perhaps label them laws.

 

[OkiePC]

I would, provided of course you were not "milking it" in some form or fashion, or hadn't in the past.

What are you saying, we can electrocute folks we think are slow? That's brilliant. If we do it at work it's easy to get away with too.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Here, OSHA delivered a 500 fine to a previous employer who wrapped a burly contractor around a tread spool. They had no proof they had trained him at all. So many sick faces that day who saw the body.

In England, a company was fined £200,000 after a worker lost fingers in a power press. http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2013/rnn-nw-smurfitkappa.htm?eban=govdel-images&cr=21-Mar-2013

I'm really interested as to how this one plays out - please keep us posted.

I had a thought about contractors going on a "Blacklist" - how about the company going on a "Plcs.net" blacklist?

 

[krakenfan69]

Okie, pack your bags and move here. You start as soon as you get unpacked. Heck if this Kansas boy can make the move to Canada then an Okie should be able to! Seriously hope it gets straightened out and is prevented from happening again.


Kraken Fan #69

 

[OkiePC]

Okie, pack your bags and move here. You start as soon as you get unpacked. Heck if this Kansas boy can make the move to Canada then an Okie should be able to! Seriously hope it gets straightened out and is prevented from happening again.


Kraken Fan #69

Move South of the rio and consider it a done deal.

The cool thing about okies is that we love to try to make poeple into them We are natural inclusionists...but this one must have polynesian genes...i have my eye on two particular 126k jobs near beautimus Lake Murray Oklahamo.

 

[OkiePC]

Wish me well, Obi Wan, and may Luke and the force be with me.

 

[katratzi]

"By the way, if we ever end up working together, please don't f with me. "

I would be glad to work with ANY day.

 

[OkiePC]

Code enforcement appears to be totally optional in this state which is fine by me. NO one ever got hurt by 120VAC I asked for proof three days ago, so in actuality, I broke the law and should pay the fine for using an undocumented locking method.
Perhaps they did follow the rules and my radio doesn't work 1/4 mile away anymore?

I have known that none of their equipment has legitimate e-stop circuits from the moment I opened the drawings.

It is SOP to turn a blind eye, right? I didn't do that, I decided I could fix all of it myslef as soon as I asked for help, they turned a blind eye, but not due to negligence, due to ignorance.

As the most capable technical person they have ever known, it was my resposibility to protect them from these dangers 6 years ago rather than stay with their system and try to enjoy years and years of job security.

This is so big, folks, they make 1,000,000 pounds of patties a day and ship worldwide, and I am complicit in every accidient and injury since Sept. 11 2006.

I intend to turn off my phones for a few hours, while I write my confession, over the coming weeks, auction my properties and turn myself into the proper authorities which is what I should have done on day one. The DA will be highly interested in this I ma sure. I need to get my ducks in a row and go beat heavy bag in half to get past the emotion so I can convey this clearly to the police officers (who are the olnly members of society who have NEVER violated my civil rights).

If only there were electrical laws here. I could lead a technical person through the plant, like I dunno a surpise inspection with a shopping backet or two full of padlocks and go through and start hanging them on every disconnect for which a true violation exists.

But that is an idealists fantasy about how the world works.

I can stop the violence with my conffession, and I remember wire numbers drawing numbres machinery names, IP addresses, can quote verbatim most every memory since the age of 6, and I am humble enough to do the right thing now that I finally recognize what that it.

A huge burden will be lifted, and perhaps they will show lenience on me and forgo jail time so I can keep my dogs. Getting rid of the burdensome homes and vehicles and going to see a real Hockey game in Canada after I serve my sentence will be reward enough./

 

[OkiePC]

I bet IOklihomie could go on a two hundred stop world tour and earn enough to pay off my youngest son's well earned brand new z-28 camro with t-tops.

What a fine gourp of kids I have...whjile were still OT:
FB facebutt me Paul E. Cunningham Nowhere Oklahoma

 

[The Plc Kid]

And from what I recall, you guys pay out the Joe W. too?

Matter of Opinion I guess.Hourly is $28.00 to $46.00 for what we do.Mechanics are $20.00 to $28.00 and sparkies are $24.00 to $30.00

Are you in need of an apprentice to train to be a network oracle like yourself? My kids iz purdy much raised, and I like it warmer and wetter...

I know just enough to get myself into trouble and thats about it. if you decide to come this way I think we can make room for you.

What if the lock was ill placed and well intended based on a common sense adjustment.. Think like disconnecting motor leads and taping them off with a paper note. My lock didn't truly comply...wait...nevermind...that's probably impossible since you're company has a system which is actually in compliance...

If the lockout is not correct then the individual would be written up. But the person that defeated the LOTO would be terminated no questions asked.I can't even cut a lock.If someone leaves their lock on they have to come back and remove it. We will not cut them. Forbidden against company policy. And the production God and the rest of the team are going to chew the persons as% till there is not much left because of the down time of the lock being left on.