OT:Schooling

[PLCRookie]

OT:schooling

Just thought I would add my 2 cents, as I have lived this for the past few years. All of the posts are correct as far as big companies. They have "ranges", and one requirement for the range is a degree, prefferably a BS(no pun intended). JTN was dead on when he said "There is always something else to learn. If you are a pretty good programmer, learn to design the control system. If you already know that, learn how jobs are set up and how to manage a job and keep it on budget. If you already know that, learn how the overall business works. My eyes were really opened up when I started looking at work not from the programmers perspective, but from a business standpoint. Learn everything you can about the business of controls, not just how to do controls work." I would go further and say learn some mechanical, electrical, etc.

You dont say what part of the country you are from, so its hard to know what the job market is there. But I can tell you from experience, that you will be better off financially, as well as emotionally working for a small company than a large one. Most people think that a large company provides you some type of security(BS). The only thing I got from the big guys was a lesson in how to not get anyting done !!! And these guys are a HUGE German outfit. I came from a small (highly profitable) company that took their business over the years. Well finally they bought us out(at a very premium price,the owner is still laughing) and proceeded to drive the company into the ground by imposing the "-----" way to everything we did!!!
I too could'nt get a raise or promotion because I didnt have a degree.
After 19 years, it took me 2 weeks to find a better job, with better pay and benefits.


So, keep your head up, and start looking!!!!


And , by the way, I think I've learned more by reading the posts from these guys than you will ever learn in college.
Remember, there are alot of things they dont teach in college!!!

 

[Sheldn]

Some recommendations or free advice (remember it is worth what you pay for it)...

Get a BS in engineering from a ABET accredited school.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=online+%2B+degree+%2B+engineering+%2B+abet

Be careful of degree programs that are "certificate programs" or have the word "program" in it. These are usually not BS degrees and usually not accredited.

If salary is a concern to you, then you may need to look for another employer to gain ground. Unfortunately employers use the old percent increase to wow you but don't know or want to admit how much you are worth. You need to have a frank discussion with your supervisor or to a level that can get you what you feel you need. The discussion should be what is the range, where do you fall in it and that you should be in the top 90+ percentile because of what you bring to the table. If this does not pan out, start a search. Don't make any mandates or demands though. If a better situation comes up, simply resign and move on. Keep in mind that the grass is not always greener.

 

[ToddM]

Check out Old Dominion Univerisity http://www.odu.edu/ I think they have a B.S. degree on line.

Later...Todd

 

[newbie]

For what it's worth...

From where I am standing, you're livin' the dream. I don't mean to downplay your feelings; I'm sure they are justified, but I would love to have your job. Anyway, here's my advice:

Get the degree, nothing you do will help you more. I've been looking for a job and it seems that a two-year degree is worth about $12 per hour these days.

Network, network, network! If you're not going to go for the degree, then tell anyone who will listen how great you are and then prove it. My wife found herself a niche in health insurance through networking and makes over $60k a year, and she barely works 40 hours a week. No degree - trained to be a beautician.

You didn't say where your electronics degree is from. If it's Devry or Thompson or similar, you may not be able to transfer any credits. You'll be starting at the bottom.

Lastly, I finished my (AS)Mechanical Engineering Technology last year. I took 2 or 3 online classes and found that I did not have the stomach for it. It's great to attend class in your jammies at home but it takes alot of discipline to stay focused. Lectures are not the same and classroom interaction is difficult. Also, not all online courses are the same; you may still be locked into logging on at particular times or traveling to campus on a regular basis. I don't feel like I retained information as well compared to a classroom setting.

Best of luck to you.

 

[jstolaruk]

In my neck of the woods, the degree gets you the desk job at the big three/Tier Ones pushing paper with no hands on work because of UAW rules and as of late, no job security.

Example: my brother has a Bachleor's in Mathematics and a Master's Degree in Industrial Engineering, both from UofMI. Just left Visteon after thirteen years (started with Ford); he was afraid he was going to get let go because of cut backs and there was a hint from H.R. that he was over qualified for his position. He took the other offer because its usually easier to get a job while you're working verses being laid off.

Experience gets you a job at one of the smaller machine builders with plenty of hands on work and travel, longer hours, and not much desk time.

I would look around at other employers also if you feel you are under paid. Another job offer is usually the best leverage to boost income.

 

[jprindle]

Thanks for all the replies. I live and work in southern central Wisconsin. I haven't looked for a new job, so I don't really know what is out there. There are a lot of manufacturing facilities around here, so there should be something. I would still like to get the degree, as it will only help. I have been programming PLCs and vision systems for 7 years now, so I do have some experience. I am also the maintenance supervisor, so I kind of wear 2 hats. The problem is that I only get paid for being the maintenance supervisor. Now the real question is, what am I worth? Where is a good place to get an idea? Thanks again guys!

 

[testsubject]

I would like to point out that there are many accredited online degreed programs. Of them all, only one is for a BSEE (IIRC, it was in one of the Dakotas). All the others are for BSEET. There is a difference. One is theoretical(BSSEE), the other is practical(BSEET). AS such, if you are serious about getting a degree go for the BSEE. It is more marketable. I am right now going to school full time and working full time(at least for the next couple of months, long story).

I recommend getting the degree. It will only benefit you in the long run.

And , by the way, I think I've learned more by reading the posts from these guys than you will ever learn in college.
Remember, there are alot of things they dont teach in college!!!

I would like to point out that many members here are degreed. Where do you think they got the knowledge to pass on...

Bob

 

[Sheldn]

I echo testsubject's (and sheldn's) comments about getting a BSEE from and ABET college. If you look at any ads or talk to employers, they will always put this as a requirement. Any goal of moving up or getting more pay where ever you land will always have an asterisk that will be used to qualify why your raise "could have been more, but because...you only have a 2 year degree or your degree is a BSEET, or you only have a degree certificate.". Associates and BSEET type degrees are usually more hands on, but you have that and more with your years of work. Don't put another asterisk next to your desire to do better.

 

[LStewart]

Jprindle

If you find anything let me know. I will be looking also and checking out Todd and Sheldn's links. I also have a 2 year degree and just this afternoon I was doing searches for online courses. It sounds like you work for the same company that I do!! I have no clue where to even begin. Online courses would be ideal, do it on my own time, and no one can see how old I am!! I have always been content with my employment, by your description it sounds like we work for the same company! It would be the difference in being an eng tech and being an eng. Plus a big wage increase.

Good luck!
Lori

 

[davidg68124]

University of North Dakota is the only acredited BSEE online program. I want to move into that program as well, but right now financials just do not allow that as of yet.


David

 

[Beggar]

There's one other piece of the "get a degree" picture that's yet to be touched on:

You actually learn things! While certainly your years of experience and industrial training have given you an impressive set of skills, there is much that you will learn, through both major and GE courses, that will multiply your knowledge.

I also echo the ABET accredidation. If the program (like K-W) is not ABET-accredited, don't waste your time nor money. There are many diploma mills out there. You need to be sure you don't go to one of those nor even one that might be mistaken for one.

FWIW, I think Georgia Tech has some online degree programs and I believe UW-Madison has some programs that are combination distance/attended. Both are very fine universities.

I used to have a linke to a US News and World Report article on online programs but it seems have been lost to reinstallation.

 

[rsdoran]

my 2 cents worth

The degree will offer more opportunities in most cases, it is not the end all to acquiring a good position...that depends on what you can find and be amenable too.

There is no one school that has online certification to provide a Bachelors degree in any field....take the accreditation in cheek though, many employers will not buy them.

Besides the pajama thing etc, going back to school is HARD WORK. Forget about learning plcs, math, electronics etc...BE PREPARED to read CANDIDE, COMMUNIST MANIFESTO...BE PREPARED to write essays on advertisements (and a bunch of other dumb ****)...LEARN the capitals of ALL COUNTRIES in Europe...LEARN another language....IT IS NOT MULTIPLE CHOICE TESTING.

SOLVE THIS....without a REFERENCE book and you may have a start.
Solve for x and sketch a graph of the solution set.
x² - 7x + 6 > 0

OH YEAH...whats amu? whats a mole? What does the symbol Ne stand for? Whats the smallest "thing" that can be an element (pure substance)? What is mass? What does mass number pertain too? What is weight? What is the difference between weight and mass?

It has been stated I do not know "****" and answer posts when I do not know anything on the subject....THAT IS TRUE. I know nothing about nothing BUT have dealt with many NOTHINGS so know how to find the necessary information.

I am also 52 years old attending the University of Alabama in Birmingham to get my BSEE....it is not easy.

Good luck in your endeavor.

 

[rsdoran]

Phil I have to ask this, why is the word c r a p not allowed?

NOTE: all my asteriskeds comments had that word in them.

 

[testsubject]

Phil I have to ask this, why is the word c r a p not allowed?

NOTE: all my asteriskeds comments had that word in them.

Because it has the word "r a p" in it and everyone knows that that is terrible...(lol)

Ron is right. School is very tough, but you will be a more rounded individual because of it. I'm 45 and going back to school for many of the reasons stated but the most important reason is for my own personal satisfaction and goals. Don't do it for your employment; do it for yourself. It will mean more to you then.

david68124,

That is the university I was talking about. Bear's guide to Online education is very informative in helping make my decision to not go online. UoSD is online but you have to fly to their campus for 2 weeks every semester to do the labs.

 

[Beggar]

Hey, rsdoran: What's the prize for knowing all the answers?

For what it's worth, I managed to miss everything by Voltaire and Marx, and even the bard. I did have to suffer through James Joyce, though. I know the capitals of England, Holland, Germany, and France (but am still not certain whether it's "capital" or "capitol" in this context).

The nice thing about getting a Bachelor's degree is that if you decide to go back for further study, (1) no more literature, psych, or other GE, and (2) postbaccalaureate students generally have registration priority over everybody else, even if you're taking an entry-level undergrad course.

Work and school is a tough mix but worth it if you can handle it. It also says a ton about your character and tenacity.

Personally, I love school -- it just doesn't pay cr*ap... (wouldn't old John Crapper be hurt that he's automatically replaced by the asterisks?)