Panelview alternatives

[PLCDontUQuitOnMe]

I have an older Panelview 1000 that I wanted to replace with a PV Plus 7, however the prices for one of these is becoming quite high.

I have done this exact retrofit on another machine a few years ago and I remember it was fairly easy to do with the built in converter in FTView Studio.
I'm wondering what alternative brands others are using for this? I am not a fan of Siemens HMIs just due to the fact you can't upload from them. Any other brands I should look at that might possibly have a conversion tool to make the process simple?

 

[Engineerj22]

Conversion tool? I don't know. I know Automation Direct Cmores play well with AB PLCs. I would also give maple systems (Weintek) a shot too.

 

[johnd_125]

My go to alternative to Panelviews are Weintek. Weintek is a fraction of the price, don't have to wait 4 months to get one and so far I have never had an issue with one. The software is free.

I've used the Automation Direct C-Mores and the EZ Touches. I like the C-More software but the screen is often "bubbled up" with an air pocket underneath. Makes it look and feel cheap. I have one customer that has several of them and they have had several go bad over the years.

jmo.

 

[PLC Pie Guy]

Iv run into this exact scenario many times. In my opinion, Allen Bradley took 2 BIG steps backwards with the PVP7 Line.

First off, you will need the $400 bezel kit, as the PVP1000 is just slightly larger than the equivalent replacement PVP7. Aldo, you need to pay attention to how many screens are in the project. Many times, I end up using the Performance Model PVP7 to make the projects work. PVP1000 would run any project! Then, when you finally get the new shiny PVP7, it will have these stupid, flimsy, easily broken plastic mounting tabs, instead of the tried and tested metal adjusters.

My horror with the last retrofit was defiantly not fun. I had one that had sat on the shelf for a couple years. It was about 8K$ new. I opened it, flashed the firmware, loaded the project and recycled the power. Upon reapplying the power, it made a big snap inside and the magic smoke escaped. Brand new, never opened, still on my desk, still with the film on the screen. They wouldn't fix or replace under any warranty. I'm so glad it wasn't a personal hit to my business, as it would have been the last AB unit I ever purchased. The new one is on the way with a 22 week lead time and the machine that needed it, has a butchered version of a project to let it run on an older PVP1000 model.

When I have to pay for the HMI, I stay away from AB, as you said, the cost is simply to much for what you get. Hardware and software. If a company wants to pay for it, its their dime but Ill never stock them on my shelf. Not to mention, the lead times are stupid while other manufactures have stock of HMI units.

 

[PLC Pie Guy]

My go to alternative to Panelviews are Weintek. Weintek is a fraction of the price, don't have to wait 4 months to get one and so far I have never had an issue with one. The software is free.

I've used the Automation Direct C-Mores and the EZ Touches. I like the C-More software but the screen is often "bubbled up" with an air pocket underneath. Makes it look and feel cheap. I have one customer that has several of them and they have had several go bad over the years.

jmo.

Second this!!!!

 

[tdoa]

Iv run into this exact scenario many times. In my opinion, Allen Bradley took 2 BIG steps backwards with the PVP7 Line.

First off, you will need the $400 bezel kit, as the PVP1000 is just slightly larger than the equivalent replacement PVP7. Aldo, you need to pay attention to how many screens are in the project. Many times, I end up using the Performance Model PVP7 to make the projects work. PVP1000 would run any project! Then, when you finally get the new shiny PVP7, it will have these stupid, flimsy, easily broken plastic mounting tabs, instead of the tried and tested metal adjusters.

My horror with the last retrofit was defiantly not fun. I had one that had sat on the shelf for a couple years. It was about 8K$ new. I opened it, flashed the firmware, loaded the project and recycled the power. Upon reapplying the power, it made a big snap inside and the magic smoke escaped. Brand new, never opened, still on my desk, still with the film on the screen. They wouldn't fix or replace under any warranty. I'm so glad it wasn't a personal hit to my business, as it would have been the last AB unit I ever purchased. The new one is on the way with a 22 week lead time and the machine that needed it, has a butchered version of a project to let it run on an older PVP1000 model.

When I have to pay for the HMI, I stay away from AB, as you said, the cost is simply to much for what you get. Hardware and software. If a company wants to pay for it, its their dime but Ill never stock them on my shelf. Not to mention, the lead times are stupid while other manufactures have stock of HMI units.

Sounds like dead caps, might be easy to repair (and very cheap if you known how to solder), given the current supply constrains...

 

[plvlce]

Aldo, you need to pay attention to how many screens are in the project. Many times, I end up using the Performance Model PVP7 to make the projects work. PVP1000 would run any project!

The 'Performance' PVP7 is roughly a successor to the main PVP(6) line, while the 'Standard' is pretty much a successor to the 'Compact' line which featured limited # of screens (among other limitations).

In short, they've always had two distinct options, they've just changed the nomenclature such that now the 'default' seeming option is the cheaper/more limited one.

 

[Jim3846]

Cmore automation direct
Pro-face America

Used both seem similar to Panelview but like all HMIs they have their features.

 

[PLCDontUQuitOnMe]

Conversion tool? I don't know. I know Automation Direct Cmores play well with AB PLCs. I would also give maple systems (Weintek) a shot too.

FTView studio has a conversion tool to convert older Panelbuilder32 files into Factorytalk files. Worked fairly well when I used it before I think I just had to manually reformat or resize some text.

The 'Performance' PVP7 is roughly a successor to the main PVP(6) line, while the 'Standard' is pretty much a successor to the 'Compact' line which featured limited # of screens (among other limitations).

In short, they've always had two distinct options, they've just changed the nomenclature such that now the 'default' seeming option is the cheaper/more limited one.

Yes this is why I always go for the "Performance" version so that I don't run into any screen limitations.

 

[ValeoBill]

Check out "Maple" HMIs. I've interfaced them with both AB 500 and AB5000 without issue. They seem durable enough and the software is free.

 

[PLCDontUQuitOnMe]

Check out "Maple" HMIs. I've interfaced them with both AB 500 and AB5000 without issue. They seem durable enough and the software is free.

I have seen Maple recommended a few times in this thread. Do they have conversion programs to allow you to convert a Panelbuilder32 or Factorytalk View program to their software and run it on one of their HMIs without having to recreate it from scratch?

 

[Snyd1]

Not that I am aware of, I am not familiar with this company but might be worth looking at.

http://softplc.com/products/migrations/hmi/

edit added: http://softplc.com/products/opinterface/hmi/

Searching plctalk to check if this was a legit company I found this post. http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=131582&highlight=softplc

 

[Phil Buchanan]

Rockwell's conversion tool works pretty well if you want to stay with AB and migrate up.

If you are looking for a better solution I like to use soft plc for these kinds of situations as their software can convert panel builder projects, Factory Talk View Projects, and Panelmate projects over to their Soft PLC Web Studio and it will run on their Panel PC hardware or I like to buy a small form factor industrial PC and add a Hope Industrial Systems Touch Screen as they have some of the best support in the industry.

Here are a few links. The industrial PC is the model I use a lot but you may not need that level of performance so they have something for every size and every application. The fanless units are rock solid and customers love them. They are windows 10 pro and we install Logix software right on them with team viewer for remote support and Our customers really like that solution.

http://www.softplc.com/store/product/ssd-hiw/

https://www.hopeindustrial.com

https://www.onlogic.com/ml600g-52/

 

[PLC Pie Guy]

The 'Performance' PVP7 is roughly a successor to the main PVP(6) line, while the 'Standard' is pretty much a successor to the 'Compact' line which featured limited # of screens (among other limitations).

In short, they've always had two distinct options, they've just changed the nomenclature such that now the 'default' seeming option is the cheaper/more limited one.

Understood. I have only ever came across one or two of the compact units. Mostly, its the PVP1000 that comes on the older equipment we work on. Even stuff that's only a few years old is still coming with the last of the PVPV1000's still on them. I just find them one of the easiest to deal with and most reliable HMI out there.

 

[JesperMP]

I am not a fan of Siemens HMIs just due to the fact you can't upload from them.

You can store (and subsequently retrieve) a program backup on Siemens comfort panel by means of its integrated webserver.
With this you can access the integrated flash memory, or an attached USB or SD card.

It is not as simple as activating a checkmark to always load a program backup on the panel. But it is possible.
That being said, I dont understand the need for this feature. IMO plc and hmi programs must be stored on a central server, with version control etc. And with this always current backup, there will be no need to upload from a hmi.

edit: I know of many that use the combination of AB PLC with Siemens HMI, incl. my own company.