Question on Learning

Greetings Lionel,

I am leaning towards the 503 since I can learn the entire instruction set with it and we mainly have that in the plant. I know it is going to cost a little more but thats the price we pay to learn.

if your plant already uses the SLC-5/03, try to promote your “learner” system as a “spare – just in case the plant’s goes belly-up someday” ... if you can sell that idea, then maybe some nice “more-money” things will happen ...

I am also looking for different things to hook up to it so I can see it run. I was looking at getting a control cabinet but dag, those things are expensive.

this idea has helped a few guys in the past ... let me know if you’re interested in trying this approach ... I can probably make some more money-saving recommendations ...
 
A quick post before I head to bed.

(Long night, pumps going out, floor scales messed up, ugg)

As of right now there is nothing there. We have one person standing there turning the packages by hand. They have talked about different ways of doing it, but no one has taken action. I decided I would take it into my own hands....

I don't have much room really to work with. About 4 feet max from the exit of the machine to the start of the scale system. This is my biggest problem right now I think. I have a short distance with 4 packages coming out at a good pace. I am trying to finish up the drawing and getting the final details on the speed of the packaging machine (how fast the packages come out and what speed increases/decreases there may be).

I will also get the package sizes. I have it somewhere, but not with me at the moment. The heaviest is probably 3 lbs. (These are Smoked Porkchops)

Thanks to all of you for putting input in this. I look foward to reading this board everyday, everyone is extremly helpful.

Lionel


PS: Ron, I want some more information on that if you don't mind. That seems like a great way!
 
I'm assuming these are pre boxed products that you need to place a label onto with the weights from the scale probably using some form of pre label for the product code. In that application the lengths of the box is necessary for your speed calculations. as well as the average spacing required for your scale application.
 
build your own "simulator" toys ...

in post #18 Lionel said:

PS: Ron, I want some more information on that if you don't mind. That seems like a great way!

besides the basic idea of using inexpensive “tileboard” as the background for the trainer, here are a couple of other ways to save money on the “simulated machine” project ...

for switches (inputs) use regular “wall mounted” light switches from Lowes or Home Depot ... the cheapest ones will work fine for your purposes and they only cost about $0.57 each the last time I checked ... you can mount these through the tileboard by just whittling a suitable hole to poke the switch lever through – no “switch plate” needed unless you want to get fancy with it ...

as for light bulbs (outputs) get a string of Christmas tree lights ... be sure to get the larger bulbs (about 3 to 7 watts each ) rather than the tiny bulbs that all run in series ... it’s a lot easier to wire up the larger bulbs since each one can run on a full 120 volt signal ... cut the string of lights apart and you’ll have twenty (or more) sockets and bulbs ... buy these on sale right after Christmas and you’ll probably only have to spend $3.00 or less for the whole set ... and the various colors will come in handy to dress up your simulator board ... right now I’m thinking of green, yellow, red ... heck, we’ve got a terrific “traffic light” simulator coming together here ... anyway ... whittle some appropriately-sized holes through the tileboard ... if you get the hole just the right size, then the bulb can stick out on the front and still screw into the socket which stays behind the board ... or a little bit fancier: build a “frame” (basically four strips of 1-by-2) and mount a piece of tileboard on the front and another piece of tileboard on the back ... then make smaller, neater holes for just the tip of the lamps to poke through the “front” and mount the sockets on the “back” board using a “hot glue” gun to hold them in place ...

for the I/O wiring you can save quite a bit of money by skipping the terminal strips and just leaving the “field-end” of each wire permanently attached to its switch or lamp bulb ... leave each wire about 5 or 6 feet long to make it easier to connect to the PLC’s input and output modules ... #16 gauge wire is usually a good choice ... the more flexible the better ...

since you’ll probably be working with 120 VAC somewhere along the way, here’s an idea to make that operation a lot safer ... put together a benchtop “power supply board” like this one ... basically it just inserts a 100 watt lamp in series with the 120 volt “hot” wire ... sort of like adding in an extra “fuse” ... the big difference is that the lamp bulb “fuse” won’t blow out if you happen to make a mistake and wire up a dead short ... or if a live wire somehow gets away from you and makes its way to ground ... now you WILL still be able to get enough “juice” through the bulb to shock you, so you still have to be careful ... but this little rig will make all of your 120 VAC powered experiments a lot safer than just plugging your toys directly into a wall outlet ... note that the “bypass switch” is shown in red because it’s optional ... basic idea: if the load that you hook up through this thing is too heavy, then the lamp bulb will start to glow ... and as the load gets heavier and heavier, you’ll eventually reach a point where the bulb is dropping too much voltage and the loads won’t properly energize ... by switching the optional “bypass switch” to the ON position, you’ll bypass the bulb and feed the full 120 volt supply to your experimental load ... NOTE: if the lamp comes on “full bright” when you first try turning on the load, then do NOT turn on the “bypass switch” ... you’ve probably wired up a dead short ... check your wiring before you go any further ... the good news is that as long as the “bypass switch” stays OFF, even a dead short won’t cause any arcing and sparking ... and you won’t have to track down a new fuse before getting back in business ... and (big advantage) you’ll have a handy “main switch” to easily turn the power off and on as you wire up your various experiments ...

if you try any of this, keep us posted on the results ... I’ve seen some local guys get quite elaborate with their tileboard trainers ... if I remember correctly they told me that they had less than $50.00 in the whole setup ... and beside the paint booth (in the link above) they had a conveyor, a press, and one or two other simulated “machines” laid out on various pieces of tileboard ... all ready to be wired up and programmed with whatever PLC they could come up with ...
 
oops! ...

somehow I left the picture off on the last post ... I guess that I'll have to quit answering customer phone calls while I work on this important stuff ...

safepower.jpg
 
just_lionel

Any chance of getting a picture or a diagram of what you are tring to do with the boxes? A pic is worth a 1000 words as they say..

Bob
 
Any chance of getting a picture or a diagram of what you are tring to do with the boxes? A pic is worth a 1000 words as they say..

Yep, hoping to have it to you today or tomm morning. Work has kept me tied up last couple of days....and Christmas Shopping.
 
Okay, sorry for the crude picture but I think you get the idea.

ross.JPG


The packages come out of the machine (named Ross) onto a conveyor that a person is standing at turning the packages 90 degrees:

ross1.JPG


Then it goes through the pre-pricing/bottom label area through metal detection, up an incline to the boxing area from there it goes to scale/palletizing area.

Edit: Trying to get images inserted correctly
 
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We turn boxes the caveman way.....

We skew rollers (or guide the boxes on belted conveyor) to one side of the conveyor and the boxes hit an arm sticking out from the side. The rollers or belt continue to push the box around until it clears the arm, around 90 degrees. It takes a small amount of time to set up but it works flawlessly.

I can draw it up for you if you need me to.
 
The 'caveman way' (whatever happened to Caveman?) that Mark (Rube) mentioned is probably the most common method of turning product. A strategically placed pin or bar works VERY well in many cases. One caveat is that there MUST be space between the product. You can create a gap with a metering wheel, etc. if necessary. You don't really need much space to accomplish the rotation, and there are no moving parts.

The orientation you need to achieve might be a bit difficult using this method. The stop would be on the 4" wide side. Too bad it's not the other way around... :(

I'm assuming these are the standard stretch-wrapped foam trays of pork chops. Spinning them around a stop may create a dent the tray. The stretch wrap might tend to 'grip' the siderails also. Another idea might be to pick them up with vacuum cup(s) and rotate in place... :confused:

Here's a short clip of a inline rotation station we built a while back. This rotated cartons prior to cello wrapping. The "Pac-Man" disc was interchangeable to accomodate the different size packages the customer ran on this line. Might give you some ideas...
icon3.gif


[attachment]

beerchug

-Eric
 
These are what our packages look like:

chops.jpg


Plastic Tray. Strectched Film Over it. By biggest thing is I have a short lenght to turn this around in, and a narrow conveyor to do it in.
 
judging from the packaging your probably using a belt conveyer system.
If thats true then scewing won't easily work for you. Are you by any chance using intralox slip belting? the type of conveyer your using would be a great help I am also working in the pork industry so I may be able to find a food grade, heavy washdown solution for you. You probably have very similar requirements as a lot of my applications here but I would need the above info.

The other foreseeable problem is that the packaging your using won't easily slip and is easily damaged
 
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