Remote access to PLC/HMI

daba

Lifetime Supporting Member
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Jul 2004
Location
uk
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I have a customer who wants me to be able to go online over the internet to his CompactLogix for fault finding/diagnostics/editing.

He also has a Weintek HMI on Ethernet, which I may need to download new revisions to.

He only has a typical "domestic" style 4-port modem/router/access point, and is willing to run an ethernet cable to the PLC panel.

This area is not my forte, so I have lots of...

Questions...

Will this work ?
Will there be any need for VPN technology ?
Will he need to fix his IP address with his provider ?
How "secure" can we make it ?
 
I can also highly recommend **** Cosy 131.
I have 8 sites currently using **** and have never had to do any IT configurations on site other than to get an IP address provided if DHCP wasnt available.
 
FYI, Spectrum used to just re-brand the e W O N unit, they now make their own. e W O N comes out of Europe, so it might be an easier option.
 
I can also highly recommend **** Cosy 131.
I have 8 sites currently using **** and have never had to do any IT configurations on site other than to get an IP address provided if DHCP wasnt available.

There's no IT on site. They have an internet connection to a standard domestic router, that gives them internet access to their two office desktops, and provides wifi, mainly for their printer.

If they are using DHCP, it'll only ever be used for the desktops, the staff phones (<10), the printer, and me when I'm on-site, lol.

The CompactLogix and the HMI are static IPs, well outside the range that DHCP could trample on, but I don't mind getting into their router to either limit the DHCP range, or add the fixed IPs as DHCP exceptions (If that's the right terminology).

I'll take a look at the **** device tomorrow, it's late here and eyes are closing .... :sleep:
 
I have a customer who wants me to be able to go online over the internet to his CompactLogix for fault finding/diagnostics/editing.

He also has a Weintek HMI on Ethernet, which I may need to download new revisions to.

He only has a typical "domestic" style 4-port modem/router/access point, and is willing to run an ethernet cable to the PLC panel.

This area is not my forte, so I have lots of...

Questions...

Will this work ?

Yes.

Forewarning, everything else can be done below inexpensively or even free. And there is a good chance I'll make it sound more difficult than it is.

Will there be any need for VPN technology ?

Possibly. It depends on A) the security that AB provides (I have zero experience with AB products) B) if the customer is willing to expose the CompactLogix to the internet with no additional security other than what AB provides.

If AB provides decent security with a login and password, you would simply give the PLC a static IP address outside of the DHCP range (I usually start my DHCP pools at x.x.x.100), then port forward whatever port(s) AB uses to that static address. Rinse and repeat the same steps for the HMI.

Changing the DHCP pool is trivial in nearly every router in existence. You would want to change it to a higher value so that the DHCP server doesn't give out the same IP that the PLC or HMI would be using, in the case that their are offline. IE, you assign the PLC a static address of 10.1.10.20. PLC is offline, employee comes in, their phone jumps on the network and the DHCP server hands out the address of 10.1.10.20. Now the PLC comes online with the same address, you have an IP conflict.

If the customer isn't willing to expose the PLC to the internet without a VPN, it's quite possible their router has a VPN option built in. Even low end consumer routers are including that now. You'll need to create the VPN on their router, as well as make a VPN connection on your computer to access their VPN. This is the most secure option (depending on the type of VPN being used, PPTP VPN's still send the password in clear text).

Will he need to fix his IP address with his provider ?

Again, possibly. If the customer has a dynamic IP with their provider, they could sign up with a dynamic DNS service like noip.com ($25/year) or Dyn's "Remote Access" ($40/year). The services are basically identical for your uses. If his router supports noip.com, by all means, use that. A lot of them do now. If it doesn't, just about every router made in the last decade will support Dyn.com (aka DynDns.com). Either one of these services will give you a domain (such as "yourcustomer.noip.com) that will always redirect to their actual IP.

Some software supports the use of a domain address, some don't. Automation Direct's Productivity software for example requires the numeric IP address. This is easy to get around, I just pull open a command prompt, and ping "yourcustomer.noip.com" which will resolve my numeric IP, which I punch into my PLC software.

Alternately, nearly every internet provider (at least here in the US) offers a static IP for even consumer accounts. For most consumer accounts or low-tier business accounts in here in the states, the average going rate for a static IP is $20/month, making it a bunch more expensive than a $25 or $40/year service. I still prefer dynamic dns services (even when I have a static IP at one of my locations) for the simple fact that it is easier for me to remember mycompany.city.noip.com than 77.211.90.138.


How "secure" can we make it ?

With a VPN or VPN-in-a-box, very secure. Without a VPN, as secure as AB will allow.


The **** devices make some of it easy (specifically the VPN portion), but they don't address the static / dynamic IP issue. They are also very, very expensive for what they do. The base model unit for ethernet-only communication is a little under $700.

You could replace the customers router (in the case that it does not support VPN) with a EdgeRouter Lite for $100 (which is a FANTASTIC low cost router) and have it do everything the **** does. Of course, that option comes with more setup time on your end. But, it's still cheaper for the customer and if you're billing by the hour, more money in your pocket.
 
There's no IT on site. They have an internet connection to a standard domestic router, that gives them internet access to their two office desktops, and provides wifi, mainly for their printer.

If they are using DHCP, it'll only ever be used for the desktops, the staff phones (<10), the printer, and me when I'm on-site, lol.

The CompactLogix and the HMI are static IPs, well outside the range that DHCP could trample on, but I don't mind getting into their router to either limit the DHCP range, or add the fixed IPs as DHCP exceptions (If that's the right terminology).

I'll take a look at the **** device tomorrow, it's late here and eyes are closing .... :sleep:

Then the **** will work well. The WAN side of the router will connect to their office router and obtain it's WAN internet settings via DHCP.
You will set the IP address for the LAN side of the **** to be in the subnet of the PLC and HMI.

For remote access you need to download the 'eCatcher' program on your remote PC. Also you'll need to create a free talk-2m account to sign into eCatcher.
Then on the router itself, there's a simple 3 step wizard to setup the LAN side and add the **** to your account.
From there simply sign into eCatcher and connect to the remote ****. Done.

Yes they cost upwards of $700, but IMHO it's hard to argue with the fast easy of setup, and secure connection. Save a few trips to the site and they are paid for quickly.
 
Another option would be KEB's VPN router - http://kebblog.com/industrial-router/

They offer zero-risk trials if you are interested to see if it works for you first.

Site IT does not need to get involved and they offer cellular versions as well. The software is free and allows a lot of advanced configuration options (users, groups, firewall settings, etc.)
 
I do something very similar with free utilities. TeamViewer allows connections to another PC via VPN, after that its just a matter of routing the PLC's IP address. I do this all the time, and connect my ComplactLogix, Micrologix, ControlLogix platforms as well as panelviews via internet. There is a How-to somewhere on this forum Iused to make it all work.

Edit: Found this. http://www.plcs.net/downloads/index...w to setup Teamviewer VPN.pdf&directory=Misc&
 
One thing you might want to think about is having a PC at the customer location and connecting to it to do your work rather than trying to do it over the internet directly.

Others may have alluded to this, but think about what might happen if you were updating your HMI's firmware over the internet and the connection went down. If you have RDPed into a PC onsite, the PC continues the download and completes it while you simply wait for the internet connection to come back up - no loss or lockup of the HMI.

Worst case, you call your contact and have him pick up the RDP session and complete it for you at your direction.
 
Yes they cost upwards of $700, but IMHO it's hard to argue with the fast easy of setup, and secure connection. Save a few trips to the site and they are paid for quickly.

No doubt. I'm just simply saying it is very expensive for what it does. A $100 EdgeRouter Lite would give the customer the same security of VPN (possibly higher if **** is using PPTP VPN, which I bet they are) plus more features than what the **** offers at 1/7 of the price. On top of that, after reading through the **** manual on VPN setup, it's not nearly as straightforward as I thought they would have made it. It's actually possibly more difficult than setting up an EdgeRouter.


I do something very similar with free utilities. TeamViewer allows connections to another PC via VPN, after that its just a matter of routing the PLC's IP address. I do this all the time, and connect my ComplactLogix, Micrologix, ControlLogix platforms as well as panelviews via internet. There is a How-to somewhere on this forum Iused to make it all work.

Edit: Found this. http://www.plcs.net/downloads/index...w to setup Teamviewer VPN.pdf&directory=Misc&

I do this often, but it has a big drawback of delay, especially if you're trying to troubleshoot something in monitor mode. With a direct connection to the PLC, you're getting much faster response as significantly less data is needing to be transferred. And of course, you need to have a running PC on the customer side. A client-to-site or a site-to-site VPN does not have that requirement.
 

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