S7 - Example ProTool project

[stevo]

Hi Roy,
I tried the Zip file and also for me it doesnt have a protool Project, On a side note though if you look at the archive the TDOP folder is missing which contains the .PDB file which is the project. I'm also using V5.3 & XP.

My experience presently is only with Text Panels (However a TP270-10 project is on the cards!), so with regard to Event/Alarms i speak only from this side. I've seen event messages used for errors but mostly as a guide to the the current task ie clamp advance,running mode and so on. The first event message is a stand by message which can be useful @ start up to display your company details etc.

Hope this Helps

STEVE

 

[PLucas]

Roy

If you have a look at the project I emailed to you, you will see the way that I handled the alarm messaging. I did not use any event messaging, to be honest I didn't see any reason to.

If you attempt to run my project in the simulator you will find a lot of the functions password protected, the level 1 password is 'tech' and the superuser password (level 9) is 'cerbera' (yes, the car made by TVR).

Paul

 

[RMA]

Ah well, as you say! At least I know it's not me (for a change?).

 

[RMA]

I tried the Zip file and also for me it doesnt have a protool Project, On a side note though if you look at the archive the TDOP folder is missing which contains the .PDB file which is the project. I'm also using V5.3 & XP.

Thanks Steve,

I'd forgotten about that, I wonder if the TDOP folder only gets created if you're running ProTool integrated in Step7, although I'm pretty sure Ron said he was running it integrated.

Maybe Ron can give it one last go using the inbuilt archive command in the Files menu of Simatic Manager (or whatever the command is called in English).

Cheers

Roy

 

[RMA]

Hadn't noticed we were onto a second page!

If you have a look at the project I emailed to you, you will see the way that I handled the alarm messaging. I did not use any event messaging, to be honest I didn't see any reason to.

Yes I'd noticed that, it was one of the things that prompted my question, because that was where I would have expected such alarms to be, whereas CT782 (if I've got the number right) had put his alarms in the Event alarm "container".

I think I've about got to the point where I can try a few things out now, so we'll see what happens.

Cheers

Roy

 

[rsdoran]

When you use the built in archive you lose descriptors thats why I zipped it myself.

I opened the zip file and put it in a folder and it all works, the TDOP folder should be there. My version is 5.0 with Service Pack 2.

Now it doesnt work...geez. Ok I will try again. I uploaded it then downloaded it and opened it with Simatic Manager and it was all there.

 

[PLucas]

Ron

All is well with the latest zip file you uploaded.

The OP is there.

Paul

 

[RMA]

When you use the built in archive you lose descriptors thats why I zipped it myself.

Can't try it until tomorrow when I'm back at work, my 3 year old laptop only has a 10GB drive and I had to chuck the Step7 stuff off, because it was getting too full!

What exactly do you mean by losing the "descriptors", I don't know the term (my copy of Step7 is German).

 

[rsdoran]

I belive it is refering to documentation. I havent used it myself but when I tried uaing Archive it gave me a warning that descriptors would be missing. I watched a tech retrieve a program once and he had to merge it or something to get all the documentation...when it gave me that warning that all flashed in my head.

 

[CT782]

Roy,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

When you look at the "FUNCTIONS" of the Screen Selection buttons; "On Button UP" resets the "HMI_CHG_SCREEN" Bit, if you pull that box down and look at "On Button Down" you will see it sets that bit, plus changes the screen. What I've done is created a screen-saver in the PLC. If the HMI_CHG_SCREEN" bit isn't cycled for 30 minutes or something, the PLC will set a bit that makes the HMI
change back to the Start-Screen. The company logo is actually a button you use to get to the screen-selection page. This was one of my first Pro-Tool projects so I played a little. (I'm working on a pretty big Protool Pro Runtime project now if you have that software and are interested in seeing some of it when it's done). As for the project you have, I don't really like the program, but they did not want any STL, Graph, or any other flashy, fancy programming, only ladder and in that format, so it's somewhat archaic.

You're right about the messages as well. They did not want any alarms at all. All system messages were to be EVENTS that cleared automatically when the condition was corrected (breaker tripping, etc...) Again, not the way I would have done it, but hey, that's what they were paying me for, so no problem. All of the contacts on the breakers, etc.. were normally closed and Protool would see a 1 as an alarm, so I did have to mask the alarms in the program. SHHH they didn't see that little bit of STL.
One word of warning when dealing with Alarms and Events, pay close attention to the bottom of your screen when entering the messages. Messages 1 - 16 if you defined them to correspond to Digital Inputs I0.0 - I1.7 for instance would be numbered like this:
1. I1.0 Message 1
2. I1.1 Message 2
3. I1.2 .....
4. I1.3
5. I1.4
6. I1.5
7. I1.6
8. I1.7
9. I0.0 Message 9
10. I0.1 Message 10
11. I0.2 .......
12. I0.3
13. I0.4
14. I0.5
.... and so on repeating this cycle with the hi and lo bytes.

Hope this helps!

Best Regards,
Chris

 

[RMA]

Thanks Ron, that worked OK this time. Have only had time to have a quick look so far, but I reckon there's a quite few things I can learn here!

When you use the built in archive you lose descriptors thats why I zipped it myself.

Sure enough, when I open up a block with the STL editor I get a message that there is no Symbol information and in Simatic Manager none of the Blocks have a symbolic name (there again, since there aren't that many Blocks, maybe the original author didn't think it was necessary). On the other hand the Symbol table is there this time and at least some Symbols show up (maybe they all show up - it's a bit difficult to tell when the Symbolic Name for A0.0 is "A0.0"!). I notice that when I hold the mouse pointer over an object I don't get the pop-up with all the details which I'm used to. Whether that's because of the missing descriptors or whether V5.0 didn't support that, I'm not clear.

@CT782

When you look at the "FUNCTIONS" of the Screen Selection buttons; "On Button UP" resets the "HMI_CHG_SCREEN" Bit, if you pull that box down and look at "On Button Down" you will see it sets that bit, plus changes the screen.

Here we go again learning something new. If anybody had asked me, I would have said I thought I knew my way around ProTool pretty well. I bet I'm not the only person who assumed (yes, that word again!) that these were mutually exclusive conditions!

(I'm working on a pretty big Protool Pro Runtime project now if you have that software and are interested in seeing some of it when it's done).

I'm always interested to see how other people have approached a project. There's almost always something to be learnt, even if it's just a detail here or there (see above!). My own project is also pretty big, the ProTool file in TDOP is over 5MB. If you're interested, we can do a swap!

As far as the Alarms are concerned, I'm aware of the byte order problem, and in this regard I've borrowed Jesper's naming convention and included the Byte number in the message. I've borrowed quite a few ideas from Jesper!

Thanks to everybody for the help, I think we've got this show on the road now!

 

[RMA]

200 down, 1600 or so to go

Well it looks like my alarms are more or less working as I want them to, still need to do a bit more testing, but it's looking OK so far.


BUT


A more inconvenient, uncomfortable and downright pain in the a$$ way of working, I cannot imagine! That inside the ProTool message system there is no search and replace utility is unbelievable. Admittedly you can mark existing alarm entries and copy them, but comfortable it is not! I can only assume Siemens are trying to persuade us (not very subtly) to lay out the 1000€ for PDIAG!

I've got a sore back and cramps in my fingers from all the CNTRL-C / CNTR-Ving, thank goodness there's a break for a couple of days coming up!

 

[stevo]

Hi Roy,
PDIAG is used quite alot where am working and it is very good, but as you say not the cheapest. Protool now has been replaced by WIncc Flexible, So well have to see if that is any better,but the first release was plagued with bugs. The thing i hate is that i cant scroll the message screens like i can with S7 and like you say when you have 100+ messages it would be nice to be able to navigate!

Steve

 

[Claudio Morales]

Hi this is my first time.
somebody can help me?. I copied a push button for one project to another ProTool screen, but when I try to delete the tags,that I don't use anymore
ProTool shows: Tag in use can't be deleted, use cross reference for use, so I did that, and correcting the tags in the screen. When I come back to delete the tags, the same thing again, someone can help me???

 

[S7Guy]

Claudio,

As is typical with Siemens, there is a function to delete these tags that you will not find documented anywhere.

I don't have a project in front of me with a broken cross-reference list to test this with, but try this:

Point the mouse to where there error is displayed. Hold the shift key and right-click. The mouse menu should display an option to repair or compile the tags, and once you do that, you'll be able to delete the unlinked tags. I'm going from memory, so instead of the shift key, it might be alt-shift, or whatever. You should be able to find it.