S7 - Example ProTool project

[JesperMP]

Sorry for being so late into this thread.

Roy,

In a recent post, Jesper mentioned that there should be example ProTool projects installed when you install ProTool.

I may have lead you in the wrong direction. What there is (under ../SIEMENS/PROTOOL/SAMPLES), are PLC + OP samples, but only for the older OP types (OP7 up to OP37).
I am glad that others could help you with a more recent sample project.

S7Guy,
you are right - the exact button combination is:
CTRL + RIGHT MOUSEBUTTON (when the cross reference is opened up).

 

[JesperMP]

About editing alarms and other texts in Protool:

There are two angles of attack when making larger edits to the alarm list.

1. Open the alarm message list (or event message list).
Then use the "Edit..Export" function to export all the alarm texts to an ASCII file.
Make the necessary edits.
Then use the "Edit..Import" function to import the alarms.
This only works with one language, the one that you are editing at the time of export/import.

2. Use the "Edit..Languages..Export" function to export all the alarm texts (in the "MessageText.Xls" file) to a spreadsheet where you can edit them comfortably.
You will be prompted for a "source" language and a "target" language. The principle is that the source language shall not be changed, but the target language can/shall be modified.
Do not change the texts in the column with the source language. It has to be the same for the import to succeed.
This is excellent for sending all the texts in a project to a translator.

With the combination of the two methods you can basically do everything with relative ease.

 

[RMA]

With the combination of the two methods you can basically do everything with relative ease.

I did try that, and I suppose to be fair, it was an improvement, but still not exactly brilliant!

 

[Claudio Morales]

Thanks: S7Guy I'll try right now!

 

[RMA]

My alarms seem to be functioning pretty well OK, but I've still got one small problem - I don't see any way to acknowledge them. I thought I'd read somewhere that there was an acknowledge button on the screen with the error message, but there isn't and now I can find the source of this information.

I'm using a single error line at the bottom of the screen to display the latest error and after there has been an error I get a blinking blue/white triangle up on the screen to inform me. When I click on that symbol it opens a full screen (almost) page with a list of all the errors.

The problem is that while most of the alarms don't really need an active acknowledgement, once the blinking triangle is up on screen it won't go away again, even after all the alarms have gone, presumably because the alarms haven't been acknowledged. After ten minutes or so the thing gets really annoying!

I had already created an acknowledge button before starting on my alarms, but I can't see any way to couple it in to ProTool's alarm system.

Anybody got any suggestions?

 

[JesperMP]

(How to acknowledge alarms in the standard alarm message display (window or line) on a PC based RT system is one of the things I have never found out of.The thing is that there is an ACK button on the OP panels. This ACK button acknowledges the alarm messages.)
Edit: For a simple ACK button, read the next post.

On the PC based RT system there is no preconfigured ACK button.
There is a function message_display_acknowledge_message.
This function will acknowledge the currently displayed alarm in a regular message view.
When configuring a button with this function, you have to specify which "object" it is linked to. Specify the message view.
I have not configured a line or window alarm display (System..Screen/Keys..Messages..Alarm/Event mess = OFF/OFF).

Here is a compact how-to list:

1. Configure your own alarm view (which you can paste into all your screens):
Insert..Message view.
Specify Messages, Queued messages=OFF, Messages to be ACK=ON,
Specify Message Classes, Alarm message=ON, Event message=OFF, HMI system message=OFF, Diagnosis event=OFF.
Under the Columns tab, select only Message Text, all others deselected (the operator can go to the alarm list view if he wants details). Also select Sort=Most recent message first (my preference).
Under the Name tab, change the Name from "OBJECT_XXX" to "AlarmBanner" or something similar.
Under the Display Tab, deselect everything (you only want a simple alarm view).
To view only one alarm at a time (otherwise it gets confusing), either under the Display tab select Size mode, Size to fit = ON and Visible message = 1, or experiment with the font size and number of lines displayed per message.

2a. In the alarm message view, under the Display tab select the ACK button=ON.
or..
2b. Configure a normal button with the function Message_Display_Acknowledge_Message. For the parameter Screen Object Name specify the "AlarmBanner" name that you defined above.

3. If you want to be fancy about it, you can add a visibility animation to the alarm banner. I use a global "There is an unacknowledged alarm" tag to unhide the alarm banner. If you do not do this, there will be a grey box with nothing inside it when there are no alarms.

Hope this helps.

 

[JesperMP]

Arks...

Not only IS there a way to specify a simple ACK button on PCs, but I have allready done it and implemented in my programs (I must be getting old).

You have to add a function to a global F-button under System..Screen/Keys.
Add the function Acknowledge_Message to the button.

edit:
Actually, what I have now is the customizable message view (because I can format it and put it where I want), an ACK button on the screen (the operators like to have a button on the screen), as well as an F-key to acknowledge (after a while, the operators will appreciate that they dont have to use the mouse every time).

But how DO people acknowledge the line alarm on Touch Panels (no ACK button, and no configurable F-keys) ?

 

[RMA]

Thanks Jesper, on a quick read through that looks as though it shouldn't be too much of a problem. It'll have to wait until tomorrow now though, we've been testing all afternoon until now.

However tomorrow I'll have a bit more time - we had a flashover at 24 kV on one of the dummy load reistors. 35 kA arcing makes quite a bang! Second time that's happened and since the first set of replacement resistors hasn't turned up yet, testing is going to be slowed down a bit.

Looks a bit like the resistor manufacturer slightly underestimated the problems of working with ms pulses instead of steady state!

 

[RMA]

Just looking at the alarm display at the moment Jesper and I've got a couple of questions.

Can I, as you say above, literally create one Alarm Object and then just copy it into other pictures. I've tried it and it seems to work and ProTool hasn't changed the name from AlarmBanner to AlarmBanner1 as it usually does when you try to enter a Tag name twice. It just sort of feels funny having 20 objects all with the same name.

The second point is that when I try to parameterise the ACK button for the picture name ProTool only offers me a whole list of OBJECT_XXX names and doesn't show the the AlarmBanner Name (or any other names for that matter!). I tried saving the picture first before trying to configure the acknowledge button, but that didn't help either. Finally, in desperation I left the default name OBJECT_24, which ProTool had offered, saved everthing and tried again - no OBJECT_24 in the OBJECT List! Any ideas?

Edit: Any idea where you can find a list of these OBJECT_XXXs so as to identify what they are (and possibly get rid of them or tidy things up by giving them a sensible name)? They don't sho up in the Variables list, or anywhere else that I've looked yet!

 

[JesperMP]

About your first point:
Yes, there can be several objects with the same name in a project, however each name can only be used once per screen.
It actually makes sense.
You can then easily copy the AlarmBanner and the associated ACK button freely to other screens.

About the second point:
I cannot replicate the problem.
I just made a new MessageView on a blank screen, gave it the name "TestBanner", made a button with the function Message_Display_Acknowledge_Message, and when specifying the associated object it came up with "TestBanner" in the list.
It took me less than a minute. Try to make a new blank screen and do it there (then there wont be so many "objects"). If it works OK, then paste it into the other screens.

 

[JesperMP]

About your third point:
No, this is indeed an annoying thing with Protool. No place to view or search for "object_xxx".
It is particularly frustrating when trying to locate what causes the dreaded
"Internal error, No Protool data for PT-instance xx,x,x".

In Flexible you can search for objects, so a crude way is to migrate the project from Protool to Flexible and then search for the interesting objects in there.

 

[RMA]

Yes, there can be several objects with the same name in a project, however each name can only be used once per screen.
It actually makes sense.

As you say, it makes sense, just feels a bit peculiar!

I just made a new MessageView on a blank screen, gave it the name "TestBanner", made a button with the function Message_Display_Acknowledge_Message, and when specifying the associated object it came up with "TestBanner" in the list.

No joy, created a fresh picture and tried again, wouldn't show either OBJECT_1 or AlarmBanner as possible Objects. Looks like there's going to be some detective work called for here!

In Flexible you can search for objects, so a crude way is to migrate the project from Protool to Flexible and then search for the interesting objects in there.

I just checked and I've got nearly 200 of these OBJECTS_XXXs so it might be worth doing that. This was my first ProTool project, so I've probably got quite a few "Leichen" (corpses) lying around, as our German friends would say.

That prompted another thought, I've just checked in the Variables list and counting lines /page and Page Downs, I've got just over 2000 variables listed. I wonder if I'm running near some sort of limit. I thought the 2048 limit only applied to external tags, but maybe that's not the case.

 

[JesperMP]

Roy, I have attached a Protool project that you can try to open.

 

[RMA]

Solved it!

My ACK button was in the permanent window and ProTool was only offering me OBJECTS from there (now I know where most of my funny OBJECT_XXXs are as well!).

I copied the button onto the main window area and everything was then OK. Just need to find out now if that means I need to copy an ACK button to every screen as well, or if I can paste this one back into the permanent window, so I only need it one time - a case for the trial and error approach I guess.

I'll still have a look at your file though, there may be something else I can learn from it.

Thanks

Roy

 

[JesperMP]

I'll still have a look at your file though, there may be something else I can learn from it.

Dont be disappointed when you open it.
Its just a bare project with alarms and alarm views.